Playing midi files on the PC

[intouchweb]

Hello,

This is a very basic question.

How do I make midi files on the PC sound like midi files on the Clavinova?

Do I need to download a Yamaha sound driver, or do I need music software?

I am using Windows XP Pro SP2 with Soundblaster Live 24 bit

I would like to be able to transfer a song from the CVP-305 onto my PC, play it on the PC and have it sound similar, at least using the correct voices, rather than sounding like mobile phone ringtones!

The next step is to then create a CD ...

Thanks
Mark

[wa7bqb]

I just know this isn't the answer you were expecting (or hoping for!) but the way I do it is by using my little portable (shirt pocket) mp3 recorder. It's an iRiver IFP-599t, and has a line in feature that receives the line out from the CVP309. The captured file is (almost!) exactly the same as that from the CVP. It's ready for the CD burner, or other preliminary software processing; such as Sonar, or Sound Forge. I use both, when I want notation print out and/or add effects to the captured song. Then you can save the file as mp3 or wav and even burn to cda for most players.

Another way is to run the line out from the CVP to the line in of your audio card. You then capture your CVP output using Sound Recorder (PC), or some such ... (I use Sound Forge). The drawback is access to the line in port of your audio card, which likely is in the back of your computer.

From a midi transfer point of view, you would need a Yamaha XG sound module or card with suitable drivers. That would allow you to tweak the file for ok sound, but it's nowhere near close to the original file.

-Dale-

[wally]

I really like wa7bqb's suggestion of the IFP-599t. I've never seen one, but the way he describes it, I just might have to pick one up. But I agree with him, that's not what you're looking for.

At the most basic level, the answer to your question is, "Sorry. It can't be done." Try to think of your CVP as a multi-thousand-dollar sound card. It's a very sophisticated sound card at that. If you want your PC to sound like the CVP, you would probably need to install a studio-quality sound card, because the card you have in your PC is probably only a $40 sound card. New drivers won't help much with the sound quality.

[wa7bqb]

Folks,

My iRiver portable mp3 recorder/player isn't anything special. It's just 'another' mp3 player. I selected it because it had a feature set that included (audio) optical out, line-in/line-out, and various modes that make it versatile for interfacing between the pc, my home stereo system, and the CVP. With 1 GB of solid state memory, it holds many hours worth of mp3 music, OR doubles as a mass storage device similar to a thumb drive.

While generic software synthesizers typically found on most inexpensive sound cards may not yield comparable sound to our CVP, when coupled with some of the really terrific software sampler's like GigaStudio, Kontakt, and others, it could be argued that the sound quality can be way better than the CVP.

So it is with these things that it's not so much what you have as what you do with it. Trying to render any audio through a typical computer's sound system isn't going to produce much euphoria. Yet, take the same output from those pc speakers and route it through an upscale home theater system, and voila! much improvement. Same can be said with a good quality set of headphones. I use the Sennheiser HD-595 'cans' and just love them!. I also have a Roland RH-120, which are several years old, now. The Senn's sound much better. This is what I mean when I say it's not so much what you have, as what you do with it.

Running the CVP optical out to an optical input on a home theater system offers another dimension of sound that takes the CVP to a whole new level. And you might have thought it sounded good now!

-Dale-

[wally]

Dale, have you tried connecting your CVP's optical line OUT to your iRiver's optical line IN and recording direct to mp3? Would your player allow you to move CVP songs (recorded as mp3s in your player) from your player back to your PC so you can email files to family/friends?

[wa7bqb]

Unfortunately, the optical feature is only an output. I read in an advertisement that it was both in and out, but after I purchased it, I learned that it was only an output. It works great going to an optical in on a Harmon Kardon amplifier I have around here ... but I was very disappointed that I could not use the optical out of the CVP as an input to the ifp-599t. I have to use the line in for that purpose. Works great though.

The other features of the unit made it worth my time to keep it, but I was nearly ready to return it based on that misleading advertisement. That was the main reason I selected this unit! Another downside, the supplied software will not permit uploading mp3's to the computer (copyright protection) only the other way around (pc to iRiver). There is software available on the iRiver website that converts this unit to just a mass storage device ... maybe that would fix the problem. I just use some trickery to upload mp3's into the pc. (line out of iRiver to line in of PC). So that solved that little dilemma.

Interestingly, iRiver uses the same connector for both the optical plug and the 3.5 mm line plug! With no 3.5 mm plug in the socket, there is a light path for the optical plug. I guess its all part of the miniaturization, but I thought that was pretty clever.

-Dale=

[intouchweb]

Thanks for the discussion guys...

Let me clarify what I mean by the sound quality I am after

I am not asking for hi-fidelity sound to come from a cheap set of PC speakers, I guess the word I should use is voices, ie I want the voices to sound similar (albeit through cheap speakers).

I want to hear a song through the PC like a song through a radio - ie cheap sounding but you can still recognise the instruments rather than sounding like a bunch of cheap ring-tone voices.

I have had some success so far by discovering my laptop had a Yamaha Soft Synth option to select ( Yamaha XG WDM Soft Synthesizer) which is very promising!.

I simply copy my song from the CVP 305 to a USB memory drive, then connect and transfer directly to the laptop and play the song and it sounds very close!

The next step is to see if the sound is retained when I copy the file to a CD or whether it goes back to the dreaded ringtone sounds!
Mark

[Midi Magic]

Hi

There are loads of Hi-Fi, CD recorders on the market.

I have a Pioneer PDR-555RW and it works fine for me.

Also I have a Mini Disk recorder which I use first to balance the tracks and get them in the right order. When that is done I transfer them from the MiniDisk to CD.


You could, but not recomended, use the line in of your PC to record the audio into the PC as a wave file. Then you can burn it onto CD. This will work BUT the sound quality will not be as good as a Hi Fi CD recorder.


As you already have a PC, give it ago and see what you think.

[wally]

Dale, that stinks. Any chance you can email (or post) an mp3 that you recorded from your CVP using your iRiver? I've very interested in finding a CONVENIENT direct-to-mp3 recorder for my CVP. A pocket unit would certainly be convenient.

Also, I noticed that the iRiver iFP 799T has a line IN capability. It's only $156. Do you expect this unit would work as well as the one you have?

[cowpast]

Mark,
Getting back your original question regarding getting the correct sounds XG sounds on the PC. You actually answered your own question. The Yamaha XG WDM SoftSynth will do it. For obvious reasons it doesn't end up sounding much like the Clavinova but it does assign the correct voices, particularly with the drum tracks.
Playing XG MIDI files on a PC that doesn't recognize XG voices will translate the drum tracks to various sound effects.

Sometimes you can actually hear faint whistles, bird calls or whatever in the background which also contribute to the tinny sound.The main advantage of using the Softynth is that it gives you a better idea of what the music sounds like which is good for editing purposes when using XGWorks or other programs of that type.

On the other hand, a recording of the SoftSynth interpretation would be a waste of time and effort because it will still sound bogus compared to the audio output of the Clavinova. For recording it's best to follow one of the various solutions mentioned.

Using a direct to CD recorder or a digital recorder is a matter of preference. The advantage of digital recording is that you still have the option of using the PC to edit levels of the final audio file before recording to a cd. Not a big issue, but you can get a decent digital recorder that can also record to Wave files for not much more than some of the music recorders mentioned which are limited to recording only compressed Mp3 files.

The problem with the XG WDM SoftSynth, which is the WinXP version, is finding a legitimate copy. Apparently Yamaha no longer distributes or supports it. .

[wa7bqb]

Wally,

Yes, I think that model would probably work just fine. It isn't so much what you record, as how it is sampled. You asked for a demo from my CVP, but I can tell you that there is no perceivable difference from what I play, vs. what I would record using this method. It is stereo sampled at 44.1 KHz. ; and saved in a non-compressed format. iRiver gives their files a .rec extension, but it is just a .wav by another name. Basically it is lossless, to the extent of the sample rate. I didn't look that closely at the model you were mentioning ... if it only saves as an .mp3, then I have to take back what I just said. mp3's are compressed and thus lossy.

So that means if you were to take the output from this recorder, (or any other similar), you would need lab instrumentation to measure any difference. Also, without a side-by-side A/B comparison, it would be pretty meaningless to say this was better or that was better, as I'm sure you know. If you want the best precision then you want the highest sample rate you can find ... look for something on the order of 192KHz, 24bit or some such. That's the beauty of digital. You can record / copy ad infinitum without loss since it is just a binary sequence of analog levels that you actually record. No worry about magnetic effects, dirty heads, oxidized capstan / pinch rollers like we used to have in the cassette, etc., systems.

[dancaputi]

Originally posted by cowpast
The problem with the XG WDM SoftSynth, which is the WinXP version, is finding a legitimate copy. Apparently Yamaha no longer distributes or supports it.

If they don't sell it or support it, then I say ANY copy is legit!

I strongly believe in the legal adaptation of a "fair use" policy for "abandoned" software. If they no longer sell it or support it, then shouldn't I be allowed to obtain a copy through any "reasonable" means? - provided I don't exploit the software or profit from its use.

Send me a PM if you agree...

- Dan C.