Do Piano Dealers=Car Salesmen ?!

[mbonus]

Just kidding! Nice first post, huh? Well I have been lurking in this forum for a couple of weeks as I am researching a replacement for our pathetic acoustic upright.

Well I thought I had a fair idea of what pricing should be and went down to my local (Southeastern United States) yamaha dealer to see what they had. Nice showroom with all of the new 3XXs as well as a decent amount of clp-1XXs. Well I start talking to the sales person and she tells me she has some great deals on the older 2XX series. So she demos a 208, which is a very nice instrument and sort of what I was looking for in the first place.

Well I am doing numbers in my head, figuring that this is 2 year old technology, yamaha has the 307 out, and I developed a number in my head for what I would buy this machine.

Well, she procedes to tell me that the 208 is selling for $6000! I'm shocked to say the least, to which she replys she can get me into a 301 for 3000. I excahanged cards with her and told her that I would be willing to spend 3500 for a 208. She says she will get with the owner and see what she can do.



Am I out of line? I have seen people here proclaim $5000 for a 307. I would think last years model would llfor substantially less. One other option put to me was a used 207 from a teachers studio. I am thinking for used, no more the 2500 should be my offer.

Maybe I don't really 'need' a cvp! ;)

Any advice is appreciated.

[ericho]

Welcome Mbonus

My 208 came for €4423 in 2003 = approx us$5300.
Pricing is almost the same in Europe and US at the time
My 208 is not for sale but I would consider 3500 a good price, certainly don't expect to get anything more.

Kind regards

Eric

[Scubacpa]

Negotiating is not out of line at all. The dealers (at least in the US) quickly come down from the MSRP (sticker price or list price) on their own. Basically they are always "on sale". Then you have to nudge them a little further.

[kempedkemp]

Knowing what I know now, I'd give them my lowest offer, tell them you found it for that price in a neighboring state, you're just giving them a last chance before you drive off. They'll either call you back or, believe me, you can find it cheaper somewhere.

YES, they may even be worse than used car salespeople in the US!

Ed
------------
CLP170 Home
CVP307 Church
II/22 Pipe Organ

[Scubacpa]

I'm not sure I would say they are worse than used car salesman. Maybe I don't have enough of a sample. I have purchased about 15 cars over my lifetime, and only two pianos (Techinics and CVP). Both of the piano salesman were very nice people and I don't think either one of them lied or tried to deceive me in any way - it was just a price negotiation. Some of the used (and new) car salesman lied right to my face.

[pianogirl]

I had at least 4 Yamaha dealers lie right to my face. So, I would have to say, they're pretty close to used car dealers.

Thankfully, I found probably one of the only nice ones in the US, but it took me four tries with other dealers and I almost gave up.

pianogirl

[qcharlie]

Can those car-dealers play CVPs or pianos to demo their functions? I think my local dealers are musicans.

[pianogirl]

The dealers I've dealt with can't play and they even said so. That's really a shame.

pianogirl

[Scubacpa]

I guess just like in any profession there are goods ones and bad ones (I'm sure somewhere in the world there are one or two honest used car salesmen :p). { With sincere apologies to anyone on this board who actually IS, or has a family member who is, a used car salesman :) }

[mbonus]

Thank you to all! I will be sure to let you know how it all pans out. What I really need to do is decide how high my budget is and work from there.

What I may do is just call and tell them this is my final offer for one of their floor model 208's and leave it at that. If they want to let it take floor space, that is their business. I have to think that 3500 is a good offer for a 208.

[cowpast]

The local dealer had a "Roadshow" at a Sam's Club this past weekend. There where about a dozen various models on display including CLP's and a few Disclaviers. One model that caught my attention was a CVP 208 "on sale" for the bargain price of $5995. I was really impressed when the sales guy told me that you can get better bargains at these roadshows than you would get at the showroom.

[mbonus]

Nice bargain! :o

[Orbit]

Originally posted by cowpast
The local dealer had a "Roadshow" at a Sam's Club this past weekend. There where about a dozen various models on display including CLP's and a few Disclaviers. One model that caught my attention was a CVP 208 "on sale" for the bargain price of $5995. I was really impressed when the sales guy told me that you can get better bargains at these roadshows than you would get at the showroom.

not sure if I'd call that a real bargain - I think others on this group were able to get a 307 for that price. be sure and negotiate. That said, you might still be able to haggle a better price at the roadshow than in the showroom. They were having some deals on display at Costo in my area a while back - just be sure to have as low and realistic price target as possible so you can negotiate better.

good luck!

[Scubacpa]

Orbit: I had the same thought. Why buy a 200 series when the 300's are available, unless it's a super deal. And that does not sound like a super deal.

[cowpast]

Whoa!!!
To any one mistakenly under the impression that I thought this was a bargain, let me clarify. I thought it was ludicrous. Also there were no roadshow "bargains" as they were asking the same prices at the store. More evidence in support of the car dealer comparison??
Since one distributor has bought out the franchises for the entire SW portion of the state, there is absolutely no competition in this area, and not much in the way of negotiation, so it's take it or leave it.
When I purchased my CVP96 and two years later upgraded to a 207 the prices were negotiable and fairly reasonable, this is no longer the case which is why I still have the 207.

[Scubacpa]

Opps ... missed the sarcasim ... went back and re-read it ... now I see it.

[cowpast]

Guess I've become too subtle in my old age. That wasn't meant to be sarcasm, that was meant to be downright cynical, (never figured out how to use the smilie faces or I'd put one here).

[mbonus]

Yeah, I didn't think that was a bargain, I was being sarcastic in my response. These dealers are out of their mind!

[cowpast]

MBonus - I did think that you had gotten the drift.

Actually most of the dealers are doing what they think is good business and unfortunately it apparently works. In spite of non-discounted pricing, I have been told that the chain here is one of the biggest movers of Clavinova's in the country.

There was a change (or arguably, a reaffirming) of marketing strategy by YAO that occurred a few years back. The result was a purging of any dealer that was discounting the Clavinova line and possibly dealers who didn't make some sort of quota. This change was probably due to pressure from the larger dealer chains who had the clout to bring it about. The end result was a series of dealers with firm territorial lines and a reduction of competition.

Even Sam Ash lost a franchise. They had a huge Piano showroom here and I liked to stop in on occasion. One day I was surprised to see that the showroom was almost empty. There was large poster stating that Sam Ash would no longer be carrying the Clavinova line due to policy differences with YOA. It was easy to assume that the policy difference was over pricing as Sam Ash was open to most reasonable offers.

The owner of the present chain once told me that he could drop the prices if all he wanted to do was move Clavinova's, but he had a large overhead and advertising expenses to consider. Both comments were true. I have seen YAO MLP pamphlets stating that dealers are free to set their own prices, but the Clav dealers also carry large inventories of really expensive acoustic pianos which add much to the overhead.

Since YOA considers the Clavs to be "luxury" items (another direct quote) they logically will be continue to be sold by piano dealers at luxury prices. That concept can always rationalized by the enjoyment factor but the reality for the buyer is that unlike acoustics they are electronic devices with planned obsolescence which rapidly deplete in value.

The only options are... to bite the bullet and pay up, or locate the dream dealer with the reasonable price, (which a few people did) or hit the lottery and not give a hoot. In any case the present policy and high prices are probably here to stay.

[qcharlie]

Originally posted by cowpast
The local dealer had a "Roadshow" at a Sam's Club this past weekend. There where about a dozen various models on display including CLP's and a few Disclaviers. One model that caught my attention was a CVP 208 "on sale" for the bargain price of $5995. I was really impressed when the sales guy told me that you can get better bargains at these roadshows than you would get at the showroom.

The price of CVP 307PE from my local dealer is $5995. I don't think the price is good.

[cowpast]

You got that right, did you skip over the posts after the one you quoted?? (Smilie face here).

[Orbit]

Originally posted by qcharlie
The price of CVP 307PE from my local dealer is $5995. I don't think the price is good.

I didn't realize you could get the 307 in Polished Ebony....?

[Scubacpa]

Originally posted by Orbit
I didn't realize you could get the 307 in Polished Ebony....?

I don't think that you can. It's not in the printed catalog that I have, and not listed on Yamaha's web site. At least not in the US. Maybe outside ???

[RonS]

I bought a CVP-307 last month from Cascade Piano in Portland, Oregon, for $5600. They're liquidating and going out of business. The Yamaha dealership will be transferred to another local piano dealer, Classic Piano I think, who also take over any Yamaha warranty issues.

The salesman who I talked with claimed to be from Yamaha's corporate office. Virtually everything he said was either made-up at the moment, or an out-and-out lie. He actually told me that the Clavinovas are made right here in the United States, and that the ones made in other countries are of lower quality and workmanship. He also said that if I bought one from another country (including Canada), it would be impossible to get any kind of warranty repair, or even non-warrany repair, period. If it broke, it would stay broke, because nobody would work on it.

The only reason I went ahead with the purchase was because the other people in the store were obviously embarrased by his behavior, and I could tell that the others had integrity. And, $5600 is a decent price for the CVP-307. The salesman told me on the phone that the price would be in the $4000 range, but when I showed up in person the price became $5600 because he was "looking at the wrong sheet."

So, to answer the question in the original post, Yes: Some piano dealers = Car Salesmen.

[tdeerinck]

Ron,

You can be certain of this....

YOU HAVE MADE AN AWESOME PURCHASE.......