Clavinova or Steinway Concert Grand

[goodoboy]

Sorry I didn't mean to start anything but it seems I have.
(Teachers who advertize on forums).

However be that as it may, I never did receive an answer to my origional question possed to advanced level teachers.
I'd like your opinion, an opinion based on your personal experience with the Clavinova.

Here's the question I asked:

Not being at the level where I would even attempt to play such music as Chopin's Etudes; Ocean Etude, Winter Wind, etc. or the old finger bender (Kitten on the keys), I wonder???

I've downloaded midi files of the above mentioned music. The reproduction, and sound quality was excellent.
However, these being Midi files, not you actually sitting at my Clavinova playing these pieces I'm curious??????????????;

If I was an accomplished pianist such as yourself, would I be able to play these pieces, and have the same results I would playing these pieces on a Steinway Steinway Concert Grand?

As the Clavinova does not have the same action as the action of a Stineway concert grand, wouldn't it be impossible to duplicate the touch and feel of a (real) Concert grand and achieve the same satisfactory results?

Also has any of you teachers actually played the pieces mentioned above on the Clavinova and came away satisfied with the results?

One more question please, if one was to practice Hannon exercises daily on a Clavinova would the repeated stress on the action wear out the Clavinova action, or would I be better off practicing on my (regular) piano?

Thanking you in advance for your opinopn and or advice.
Sincerely,
Paul M White
CVP 309 PE

[kempedkemp]

The more intimate you get with your Clavinova, the more you will understand it's touch and the various settings of its touch. You must also become intimately familiar with use of the pedals. It is partly your touch and your use of the pedals that will make a performance sound like it was done on a real Steinway and make you walk away satisfied.

Neither a Yamaha C series acoustic grand piano, nor a Clavinova, will ever feel like a Steinway. (Sound like one... yes.)

I'll let you know in 5 years if all the Hanon, Czerny, Beethoven and Chopin wear out my action.

Ed
--------------
CLP170 Home
CVP307 Church
Pipe Organ II/22

[jcfeli]

Hello Paul,

This is Joe, the originator of the thread that unleashed a small flurry of responses regarding teachers advertising / promoting themselves in this forum. I have posted a reply to that thread, and shall repeat much of it in direct reply to your questions.

My original posting (as a piano teacher who is fluent in Clavinova technology) was written a year ago because a previous thread in a different area of this User Group stated there was a need for someone who taught piano and who could show others how to make the most of the Clavinova's long list of performance and programming features.


* * * * *

Back to your question: You had asked if classical piano literature played live on a Clavinova felt and sounded as good as able to be played on a Steinway concert grand.

I would reply in this way: The Clavinova has a weighted keyboard and a quality of piano sound that allows an accomplished pianist to be fully satisfied with the instrument. The better the pianist you are, the more nuance you can coax from a Clavinova in terms of musical performance, especially from the CVP309 that you have. For its price, compared to 10 to 15X higher to acquire a Steinway Model D 9' grand, the CVP309 MORE than satisfies!

Regarding the touch of a Clavinova, each note on the instrument is built with a metal arm on a fulcrum that simulates the inertial resistance (e,g, feel, or response) of an acoustic grand's action. Your Yamaha dealer has a demonstration model of the Clavinova hammer action. By the way, this hammer action does NOT contribute to the sound of the Clavinova --- Yamaha uses it because the Clavinova is designed to emulate the feel of a world class grand piano.


Regarding a comparison directly with Steinway: I happen to have twice weekly access to a Steinway Model M grand piano in the local church of which I am organist. Directly compared with the CVP309, you have to press the Model M's keys harder than the 309's to get the loudest tones from it. However, you can adjust the 309's key velocity sensitivity to approach that of the Steinway's by turning the sensitivity down. (You will have to work unusually hard -- and it will be tiring for you to continue playing "like a Steinway" if you keep the touch sensiitivity turned down, however.)



* * * * * *

I noticed a flurry of comments implying the ethics of a teacher advertising/promoting himself in this forum. Here is my personal response to these statements: I already have enough piano students -- more than 60 per week. If, however, there are people in the Chicagoland area who already own Clavinovas, and would like help in exploring the deep capabilities of the instrument, I would be more than willing to work with you.

Sincerely,

Joe (ID = jcfeli)

P.S. I teach piano in an authorized Yamaha Dealership and demonstrate the Clavinova to high-end prospective customers. My favorite activity is watching the surprise on die-hard acoustic pianists' faces when they first try a Clavinova! I digress; I am often the person who locks up the store at night (10PM) after a full day of teaching piano. I am alone in the store, free to practice piano in the midst of Clavinovas, Yamaha verticals, Disklaviers and grands up to C7 (7'6" Yamaha grands).

My choice of practice instruments in the store, when left alone to the full Yamaha product range? The Clavinova 307 and 309, due to their abilities to multitrack sequence and allow voice manipulation. Enough said.

[goodoboy]

Thanks so much for taking the time and interest in answering my questions.
I've owened many panos over the years, many uprights,
a Yamaha C-3 and then a Yamaha C-7. Unfortunatly I sold them many years ago. To give you an idea of just how long ago, I purchased my brand new Yamaha C-7 for $4200.00.

At the time I had only been playing for two years.

Your going to laugh when you hear this but I didn't take up the piano until I was 24 years old. The reason, my father a Pulitizer prize winning writer told me from the time I was a child I should not attempt to learn piano, that the guitar was more suted for me because I was (left handed). He didn't say that to be mean or cruel he really believed that. He played piano (sorta)

Finally at 24 I made up my mind to (try) to play piano in spite of my left handed handicap. I found a teacher, a music professor from a local University named Harry Liszt, yes a relative of the master. I told him I really wanted to learn piano but really didn't expect to ever play well because I was left handed. He sat at my C-3 and played a few complicated pieces then turned to me and said, " Who the heck told you you couldn't play piano well because you were left handed? After I told him my father, he laughed and laughed and said, I'm left handed. From then on I was inspired to (try) learning.

I never cared to learn sight reading, preferring to study chord theory so as a result mostly play by ear. I can any song, in any key with ease. Jazz-standards-country-rag time-boogie-woogie.

I'm now 61 and play pretty well, considering I've worked in construction for 45 years so I have construction hands. Having construction hands I lack the technique necessary to play music such as Chopin's etudes. I plan to retire soon and devote the rest of my free time to developing the technique necessary to play difficult music.

Thank you again for answering my questions. Sorry I started such a mess between the members of the teachers corner.

Sincerely,

Paul M White
CVP 309-PE

[jcfeli]

Hello Paul,

I read your story about your musical life -- it is fascinating, and amusing -- you see, I am left handed as well! (Comes in handy for the Revolutionary Etude - Chopin Opus 10 no. 12!)

Please do not put yourself down as having started playing at age 24 and your current age. You are never to late to gain enjoyment from playing the piano at whatever level you are capable of achieving.

I have a number of adult students (some of which are more than 10 years your senior) of varying levels of playing and reading competence. To those people who feel they cannot learn new tricks at middle age and beyond, I would relay this thought to you:

God forbid, when someone suffers a stroke, a part of the brain ceases to function. The person may lose the ability to speak, walk or write. These people are often able to recover some of their lost functions via physical therapy.

What kind of physical therapy, I hear you ask? Well, it's the very same physical therapy that I use to teach my piano students!! #1: Show the patient/student the correct way to perform the task; #2 repetition, repetition and repetition of that task, whether it is how to walk or how to play a musical passage; and #3 POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT!!!! Yes, even if a piano student makes 20 mistakes in a row, I praise him/her on the 21st try when it is completed successfully.

Back to the Stroke analogy: With those three steps in therapy (admitedly simplified for discussion's sake), the human brain is able to route NEW neural connections to allow the patient regain some or much of previously lost function.

To my way of thinking, if another part of the human brain can neurally connect itself to regain physical function (walking, speaking, handwriting), then surely plaing the piano ... is child's play for the brain (even if it is a middle aged+ brain!!!)

Of course children and young adults are able to learn more quickly than middle aged adults -- but the older person has something that trumps the younger person's ability -- and that something is "desire", e.g. motivation!!! Please remember that!!!

In other words, Paul, enjoy your Clavinova -- and take pleasure in the enjoyment you derive, at whatever musical level you are able to achieve!


Cheers,


Joe

[Scubacpa]

I started my piano lessons at age 47 (now age 51). It's been a real struggle. I'm not ready for prime time yet, it's slow, but I'm a little better each year. Maybe by the time I'm 85 I'll be ready for public consumption!

[odiug]

dear paul,

many thanks for your story. I'm fifty and I was playing by ear when I was a teenager, then I stopped and now ... I'm going to buy a clavinova cvp (303 or 305, not decided yet) but I feel old, sometime I even think I shouldn't spent so much money on something that is just for fun. Then I read what you wrote and I say to myself: YOU MUST!!

[goodoboy]

Thanks so much for you kind words.
If you read the thread starting from top to bottom you'll see the quality of members who belong this is forum.
They gave me encouragement and valuable advice.
I'm amazed at the variety of knowledge available. What I call (Advanced Members) either in the technical aspects of the Clavinova or the level of expertise in playing.
Members range from newbees to highly advanced.
There's something for everybody.

One thing that helps to know is the price members share about purchasing Clavinova's. My local music store has a cvp 307.
Six months ago they wanted $7800.00 plus tax, now that same cvp is offered at $5200.00.
Because six months ago they wouldn't come down in price I purchased my cvp309pe for $8000.00 total price. Ithough I was getting the deal of a lifetime. Later I read members of this forum bought the same CVP locally for less than I paid for mine.
What's my point?
Before you purchase a 303 or 305, check out the difference compared to a 307 or 309. You might find a source from this forum for a higher level cvp for what your local dealer is selling his 305 for?
Just a suggestion of course. I'm only suggesting this because in my situation if I'd known then what I know now I'd probably been able to purchase my 309pe for less, and from a local dealer. Other members of this forum paid less than I did and had the convienience of dealing with a local store.
What every you choose to do, have fun when you get the CVP of your choice. I LOVE mine. You will too.
Sincerely,
Paul M White
CVP309PE

[Carlitin]

Paul : I am very happy to read all the answer you got for your interrogations. about the CVP and Grand pianos. I got my new CVP 309 PE, few weeks ago, in this time I was traying all around about the sound and feelings of this " electric piano " who the purist said. so I invitate them to play´t. One piano teacher and first piano in the University Orchesta and the other one a great Jazz pianist, bouth with year of work. AFter a few minutes they need to recognize that the CVP feel and hear like que realy Grand piano. More...... I ask them to close his eyes or turn of the light. and them....that was a realy Grand. Ha-Ha !!. So after that I start to practice my old piano books and give 60 minutes only for the Hannon methotds, is the best for the agility and strongs fingerets. I start to play pieno about 6 or 7 years old but for my work I stop. So at my 63 years old I will try again to stody and practice the Chopin, Mozart and so on ......
Yes In my younger life I play may type of pianos, Yamaha, Steinway, Chang Y. Baldwing..... and Yamaha give us the CVP for the people who like to play the Grands and hasnot the money or the phisical area to have one. Take your time, yor have a great pieno. :) Carlitin