Midi System Settings

[Stand Sure]

Has anyone had any success in finding a set of Midi system settings which will allow a CVP-307 to be started and/or stopped by an external Midi device while the tempo continues to be controlled by the CVP internal Midi clock rather than a clock signal received from the external device?

I use a Boss BR-1600 Digital Recording Studio in conjunction with a Yamaha QY100 Music Sequencer. In this setup I can trigger the QY100 to start and/or stop either record or playback from the BR-1600 while the QY100 uses its own internal Midi clock to sync and control the initial tempo and any tempo changes. This allows mixing of digital recordings of live instruments with Midi generated tracks.

I want to be able to do the same thing with using the CVP-307 as the sequencer in place of the QY-100.

Referring to the CVP-309/307 Owners Manual:

LOCAL CONTROL (OM p198) suggests that this setting determines whether the Clavinova is controlled by its own internal clock or a Midi clock signal received from the external device. (I WANT INTERNAL CLOCK CONTROL)

CLOCK (OM p198) - uses the exact same words to describe its purpose.

START/STOP (OM p199) determines whether incoming FAH (start) and FCH (stop) messages affect Song / Style playback. (THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO HAPPEN!)

Selecting the pre-programmed "Clock Ext" Midi template allows the CVP-307 to be started and stopped but playback is synchronised to the external BR-1600 Midi clock.

Basically then what I'm trying to do is to develop a USER Midi template which will allow remote start / stop while still retaining use of the CVP-307 internal Midi clock. Perhaps I'm missing something obvious.

Any help, advice or solutions would be most welcome.

David

[dancaputi]

I like this question but I have no way of playing with it (trying things) right now.

Bottom line on this is: if you say you can do it with the QY100, then there's gotta be a way to do it with the CVP's sequeuncer. I've never tried this but where there's a will, there's a way!

What happens when you turn song local control off and set the clock to internal? Or does it not let you try that?

- Dan C.

[Stand Sure]

Dan, Thanks for your reply.

What I am trying to do is have the CVP-307 as the master clock, initiated by start / stop midi signals originating from the BR-1600CD. I need to do this in order to be able to accurately overdub edited midi tracks in strict time with previously recorded non-midi (audio)instrument data.

I have learned that the CVP-307 does not generate any MMC for synching, only MTC which can be set to either Internal or External.

I am able to send start / stop messages from the BR-1600CD which are recognised by the CVP-307, but only if I let the BR-1600 clock control the CVP-307 tempo - which I don't want

What I'd like to be able to do is leave the CVP-307 clock set to internal, but have it recognise an external start / stop request from the BR-1600CD.

I also use both XG Works v3.0 and Cakewalk Home Studio sequencer software but don't think that either of these really help to solve this dilema.

You ask what happens when you turn song local control off?
The Local Control options determine whether the song. style. left, right1 or right 2 are controlled by the CVP-307 clock or an external clock. Options are on or off for each part.

If the Clock is set to internal then the CVP does not respond to external start / stop signals. If the clock is set to Midi (external), then the CVP can be started or stopped from the external device, but the tempo is also controlled by the external device, regardless of the Local Control ON/OFF setting.

I like your optimism - where there's a will, there's a way! I can and do do this with the QY100, so I hope we can find a way to do it with the CVP.

David

[mikemilton]

Well, what you actually seem to need is a master clock...

So, could you not use the QY (or your sequencer) for start/stop and clocking *all* the other devices?

Alternately, if you are doing individual MIDI tracks (vs styles) could you not transfer the midi tracks to the QY (or your sequencer) and then send the (properly timed) MIDI to the CVP ... this would be *exactly* like using your QY except that the sounds would be generated using the CVP

cheers, m

[Stand Sure]

Mike

Thanks for your suggestion. It seems to me that I'm missing something but equally I have not clearly explained my problem.

(1) I have individual tracks recorded on the BR-1600CD which originated as Midi sequencer files played individually via the QY-100 using XG voices. The BR-1600CD recorder was used to start / stop each track in order to maintain the correct sync timing, but the tempo changes within the track were controlled by the master clock within the QY100.

(2) Live instrument parts were the recorded on additional tracks in sync with the pre-recorded tracks from the QY-100.

(3) I now wish to edits some of the midi sequencer tracks and then re-record them as audio files back on to the BR1600CD, once again using the BR-1600CD recorder to start / stop each track in order to maintian the correct sync timing, but with any tempo changes being controlled by the external sequencer.

(4) This time around I want to use some of the CVP voices in place of certain XG voices in the QY100. Since the BR-1600CD contains only digital recordings of audio data it knows nothing about any tempo changes, but must be used to start / stop and re-recording in order to maintain sync with existing tracks.

Having taken the time to more clearly describe the situation, I'm beginning to see a light at the end of the tunnel - hope it's not a train coming!.

Building on your idea, I now think the process could work something like this:

(a) Edit the required midi tracks, select the required CVP voices and save the midi file to a Smartmedia Card.
(b) Use the Smartmedia card to transfer the edited midi tracks to the QY100.
(c) Route the MIDI out from the QY-100 to CVP MIDI in,
(d) Set the CVP CLOCK to MIDI, so that it will function as an external tone generator to the QY100
(e) On the QY-100, mute all but the individual track to be re-recorded.
(f) Route MIDI out from the BR-1600CD to QY100 MIDI in
(g) Use the BR-1600CD to send a start message to the QY100
(h) The QY100 should send correctly timed MIDI to the CVP, with the voice being generated externally by the CVP
(i) Route the audio out from the CVP Aux Out jacks via any signal processors to the appropriate channel input on the BR-1600CD and digitally re-record the individual track in sync with the original.

I haven't tried this yet, but on paper it "sounds" like it could work.

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my posting.

Best regards, D
:)

[Stand Sure]

Mike

The train has left the station .......

I tested out the configuration described in my last post and lo and behold it works. The BR-1600CD controls the QY-100 which sends its data to the CVP-307, which in turn sends its audio back for recording on the BR-1600CD. Seems so obvious now!

I haven't checked to see if the extra processing adds anything in the way of a noticeable time delay over the duration of re-recorded track.

Now I need to explore if there is a way to change the voices used by the CVP-307 in repsonse to the incoming MIDI from the QY-100. That would allow "fine tuning" without the need to resave to the Smartmedia card each time.

Thank you again for pointing me in the right direction. Your help was very much appreciated

D

[Stand Sure]

Hi Mike: (and anyone else out there who's listening and/or interested)

I've progressed the idea further to the point where I'm now able to do exactly what I set out to do in the first place - namely start and stop the CVP-307 with MMC signals generated by the Boss-1600CD Digital recorder - and have the tracks play in the correct tempo, including any and all tempo changes.

The solution is to use the QY-100 as an intermediary. The QY-100 responds to MMC signals from the digital recorder, but will march to its own (internal) drummer, while sending midi out signals to a third party - the CVP-307.

I use a Smartmedia card to load the (midi) song into both the QY-100 and the CVP-307. I then mute all the tracks on the QY-100! Pressing start on the Boss-1600CD starts the QY-100, which in turn transmits a midi out signal, starting the (same) song which is alreay loaded into the CVP-307 memory.

Since all tracks on the QY-100 are muted, the only information transmitted is time code - so the song plays in time. I can then select whatever voices are required on the CVP-307, and re-record them on the Boss BR-1600CD. Works like a charm! Where there's a will there's a way.

Hope this feedback is useful to someone - otherwise I'm talking to myself.

Thanks again, Mike

[Dinachick]

No, you're not talking to yourself! You are a goldmine of information which I am not experienced enough to completely grasp the concepts, but when I need the info it will be there for me and everyone else who needs it! Keep sharing your knowledge, it saves us having to buy a book to learn about such things!

Sincerley, Diane
CVP 309PE