Teachers, what do you think about aftertouch?

[odiug]

Before going around checking for my first buy in clavinova's 3XX series, I was reading specifications of other digital pianos, like Roland rd700sx and Yamaha S90ES, or p250. As an amateur, I thought that having aftertouch in a digital piano specifications was supposed to be a must for a top class instrument.
Now, reading your posts and clavinova series specifications, I do not see any reference to aftertouch. Am I missing something? Isn't aftertouch so needed?
I would appreciate any comments about experiences on keyboards with and without aftertouch. Perhaps, clavinova has different features that overcome the absence of aftertouch?

Thanks for your comments

guido

[kempedkemp]

guido, please explain what you mean by aftertouch and maybe I can help.

[linjon]

aftertouch is a midi thing.
i think it has to do with whether the sound changes after you initially play it, but haven't released the key.

or something like that...

[odiug]

I even didn't know the term "aftertouch" before I was looking around to choose my first digital piano / keyboard.

I even would not be able to tell by hearing if a digital piano has or not the "aftertouch". However, reading all that I could up to now, I realized that aftertouch was a very well considered feature for a digital piano. It even seemed to me that the term "aftertouch" was used in the specifications as a "special, good" characteristic.

I went to wikipedia and this is what I found (more or less):

"The piano responds exceptionally well to the force with which the keys are initially pressed; it is velocity sensitive. ...The clavichord and some electronic keyboards also respond to the force with which a key is held down after the initial impact; They are pressure sensitive. ...
There is some confusion relating to the term pressure sensitive, with some using it as a synonym for velocity sensitive. To avoid this confusion, pressure sensitivity is sometimes called aftertouch."

After your reply I went back to wikipedia reading carefully again. And, yes, you make me doubtful. Is really aftertouch a piano feature?

Cheers

guido

[Scubacpa]

Since most of us have never heard of "after touch" ... I guess it's not that important.

I thing "feel" is more important. If it can fit in your budget I would highly recommend the 309 because it has the natural wooden keys and really "feels" like a real piano.

The studio where I take my lessons has both acoustic grand and uprights. So depending on the day and time that I go I can end up having my lesson on either one. I can tell you that my 309 feels more like a "real" piano than the real upright. In order of "feel" I rank 1) Grand, 2) My 309 and 3) the acoustic upright.

[linjon]

aftertouch is a midi thing.

Aftertouch
Category: Voice

Purpose

While a particular note is playing, pressure can be applied to it. Many electronic keyboards have pressure sensing circuitry that can detect with how much force a musician is holding down a key. The musician can then vary this pressure, even while he continues to hold down the key (and the note continues sounding). The Aftertouch message conveys the amount of pressure on a key at a given point. Since the musician can be continually varying his pressure, devices that generate Aftertouch typically send out many such messages while the musician is varying his pressure. Upon receiving Aftertouch, many devices typically use the message to vary a note's VCA and/or VCF envelope sustain level, or control LFO amount and/or rate being applied to the note's sound generation circuitry. But, it's up to the device how it chooses to respond to received Aftertouch (if at all). If the device is a MultiTimbral unit, then each one of its Parts may respond differently (or not at all) to Aftertouch. The Part affected by a particular Aftertouch message is the one assigned to the message's MIDI channel.

It is recommended that Aftertouch default to controlling the LFO amount (ie, a vibrato effect).

Status

[odiug]

Hi, Status

from what you are saying we can assume that aftertouch is not a simulated "acoustic piano" thing?

Still, for all voices different from the piano one it would be nice to have atertouch.

what do you think?

guido

[kempedkemp]

I thought thats what you probably meant Guido, and it would probably be easier to tell if the instrument has these or similar features than you think. That aftertouch ads to the overall quality of the sound, particularly sustained notes.

I do not know the term aftertouch but the CVP3xx has a multi-level touch and iAFC which, as near as I can tell, is the next best thing to a vibrating string.

If you are just a plain old piano player like me and don't need styles and your own rhythm section, you can easily get by with a CLP series instrument. The higher models like the 170 have that real weighted key action and top of the line piano sound. If you want to use a lot of different voices together, go with the upper end CVP's for the most polyphony, styles and registration memory. The real advantage of the CVP307/309 for me is the
128 + 128 polyphony.

[odiug]

I'm not in the range of 307, here in Rome I could get a 303 for about 2.000 euro and a 305 for about 2.600 euro, whereas 307 price is 3.990 (too much for me).

It is a pity that aftertouch is not in clavinova series, since you can find it in Yamaha P250 or S90ES.

BTW, what you think of waiting in my buy until this summer hoping that the 305 price gets around 2.000? It looks possible in your views such a rebate?

guido

[linjon]

aftertouch , i guess, was created for midi keyboards, rather than piano like devices adapted to also use midi.
If you play an organ sound, then don't release the key, the sound plays forever, right? ( can't check now)

Page 158 of the manual ( 309) notes the clavi sends and responds to aftertouch.

john
( but apparently also known as "status" around here.)

[Ian J. Evans]

Originally posted by odiug

BTW, what you think of waiting in my buy until this summer hoping that the 305 price gets around 2.000? It looks possible in your views such a rebate?

guido [/B]

Hi Guido

I believe that what you are considering would, in north american terms be called a '"'crap shoot", that is, a 'gamble'.

You could get hit by a truck in the meantime and miss out on all the fun of playing a new instrument...! Heaven forbid!

A knowledgeable chap once told me that you cannot chase and catch up, inflation or technology.

If you are a young chap then maybe you can afford to wait, if not then make a decision and go for it.

I waited until retirement to learn to play piano, wish now I had started sooner.

Let us know what you decide and 'have fun while the sun shines'...!

Ian

[odiug]

Ian,
my desire to play a cvp 3XX grows each day, I'm not waiting at all if you (and others) suggest that there is a very little chance of such a rebate (it would be a 20% rebate on the actual price of 305 in three months). I read about a new cvp 4xx series under way in one post of CVPUG forum.

John,
I checked the 309 and 305 manual and they talk of aftertouch in a section that regards editing a song. I'm not sure that this means that the feature of aftertouch is in the cvp 3xx series. It looks that it only recognizes the midi event of aftertouch that appears on the screen ....

guido

[Scubacpa]

Originally posted by Ian J. Evans
Hi Guido
I waited until retirement to learn to play piano, wish now I had started sooner.
Ian

AMEN BROTHER ... Me too! (well not quite retirement but way too late). I tell any youngster who will listen (and most don't) to learn to play an instrument, any instrument, while the mind is fresh. I took guitar lessons for about 2 years when I was a teenager and then stopped. Big mistake!! I look back on that as one of the biggest errors in judgement of my life.

[wally]

As for aftertouch, you might want to check out my reply to the following thread...

http://www.cvpug.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1610

[linjon]

"Page 158 of the manual ( 309) notes the clavi sends and responds to aftertouch."


EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

The data manual, under midi implementation, notes that clavi only responds to AT.

Interesting other thread.
kinda makes sense.

[RBmusic]

For "piano" it is irrelevant,
Ahhh, now we get to the question of what one considers the CVPs to actually BE ?

If a "digital piano" aftertouch doesn't belong.
If a "synth" then aftertouch has uses, e.g. "Bending strings" on an electric guitar patch. Also tremelo, vibrato, etc. that are useful on many synth patches and, I would assume many of the CVP's instrument sounds.

Although I don't (yet) own a CVP I must say that, with everything else that it appears to be capable of, the lack of aftertouch is disappointing.
I don't see a way to do the Jimi Hendrix'esq stuff without aftertouch, not that I would buy a CVP PRIMARILY for that.


Mayhap I'll go look at the tyros now (-:

[RBmusic]

Be careful, that site tries to download and run a .exe file without much info as to what it is or why it is needed. I think it is very unlikely to be relevant to this thread.

It might be OK, it might not, I'm not taking a chance.
Thanks anyway, etc.

[Eric Brinkerink]

I reported all this "Abmoten09" b..s... posts.

Don't visit the links, they might harm your pc's health.