Type of Cleaning Product & Lubricant For Inner Keyboard Assembly?

[ChesterNYC909]

I have a CLP-350 purchased in the early 1990s and it's (over) due for a complete internal cleaning.

I read this (http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/6/2421.html) very nice and informative post and now have a general idea of what to expect.

However I'm wondering what types of cleaning solutions to use on the various parts.

Also I'd like to apply new lubricant to the internal mechanism. Is there a special type of lubricant to use? And are there more than one contact per key to apply it to?

I checked some websites for the service manual and find it quite expensive for my budget (and the thread linked above says it wasn't very informative anyway), so I don't know if it will answer any of my questions.

Thanks in advance for any help :) :)


UPDATE: I found the phone number for Yamaha to get the lubricant, but still wonder if there's a specific and/or recommended cleaning method, and lubricant application method. Thanks again...

[kempedkemp]

Radio Shack markets a non-flammable aerosol contact/control cleaner & lubricant. Comes in a spray can with a straw pointer that attaches to the spray nozzle. Says its safe for use on most plastics.

I'm sure there are other products. This one is easy to get.

I do not know what Yamaha recommends. If you are trying to save money by not having the job done professionally, I strongly suggest you spend the money on the service manual. It will give you specific info you need and could possibly save you from doing serious and costly damage.

[ChesterNYC909]

I have electrical contact cleaner spray, so that should be good for the cleaning.

When reading through these forums I got the impression that the lubrication needed to be applied in specific areas, after the parts were cleaned. Am I right with this? Or is cleaning and lubricating pretty much the same? (Meaning could I use the contact cleaner for both?)

If I need the lubricant as a separate item, I figure a good idea to get it straight from Yamaha.


Is the service manual really needed just for a mechanical cleaning? (no electronic circuit repair needed.) I am trying to save money, actually. I found the service manual available online in PDF for $17, but it will take a maximum of three weeks to get it. (With the internet, I really expected to be able to get it within three minutes!!) Also there's a used printed copy for $25.

Do Clavinova manuals typically explain the cleaning process?


Thanks for the help!

[ChesterNYC909]

I just opened my CLP-350 to take a look, and cleaning would seem a lot more straightforward than I thought. I assume clean the keys and hammers with electrical contact cleaner spray (or is rubbing alcohol better?) to remove dirt and old lubricant, then apply the new lubricant to the points on the hammer and keys. Perhaps also some contact cleaner on the electrical contacts and that long plastic strip too.

I'm going to get the lube straight from Yamaha for the best results (which I hope won't cost more than a few dollars).

Anyone have any comments/recommendations please let me know...

[ChesterNYC909]

I called Yamaha today and discovered there are more than one type of lubricant for the keyboard assembly. (A tech is going to call me tomorrow to discuss which ones I would need.)

But if I do a thorough cleaning of the keys and weights, wouldn't I need all the different types anyway?

[ChesterNYC909]

I got the part numbers for the two lubes I would need from a Clavinova tech, and just called the parts dept hoping to place the order, but found out the total would be over $140!

The tech left for the day and won't get back to me until tomorrow.

Can anyone tell me if there are smaller sizes that Yamaha sells? Small... meaning $25 worth?

Or does everyone who does this type of maintenance actually pay that high amount?

Does anyone know the contents of the greases and if there's a cheaper substitute somewhere? Does anyone happen to have some left over to sell??


VD456001 - used on the hammer and pivot point of the key
VA278700 - used on the rubber key guide in the front of the key

[ChesterNYC909]

Okay.... I just found out that the technician won't be back in the office until next week, so am waiting a call back from the backup technician.

I called the parts dept and was told the part numbers I got before were replaced with the following new ones:

VD456002 "Key Grease" 50 Grams - $61.32
(used on the hammer and pivot point of the key)

TX920270 - "Silicon Grease" 100 grams - $81.32
(used on the rubber key guide in the front of the key)

As I told the parts dept representative, 50 and 100 grams sounds like enough for twenty Clavinovas. But those are the only sizes they sell.


$140 is a lot of money for grease. My questions for this CVP forum:

Can anyone recommend alternate greases? Couldn't a cheap, locally bought tube of silicon grease be used instead? Are there different types of silicon grease? Does anyone know the type of lubricant inside the "key grease" and can this be substituted as well?

I'm happy for such a forum as this where people like me could ask questions. (I'm just hoping the experienced ones out there will respond) :)

[cowpast]

Something sounds way off on the price you were quoted for the grease. 61 bucks for the key grease is a big jump from the price I paid in 2004. I think it was around $8.00 for the 50g tub and I thought that was too much. I ordered it along with a key that I needed to replace one that was broken on my CVP 207. This was before Yamaha sent a replacement keyboard.

At that time it wasn't known that the key problem was going to be epidemic due to a design problem. I ordered the grease thinking while I had the piano apart I would do a "lube and oil change ". The reality was that attempting to remove each key to replace the grease did not seem to be a good idea and would probably do more harm than good. Also there was ample grease recovered from the old key for use on the replacement.

My advice on cleaning the insides is, unless you think you really have a problem, stick to a vacuum and the careful use of a can of compressed air but forget abut the lube job .

Anyway, the VD456002 key grease is actually something called Floil G-715 and not surprisingly is made by a company in Japan, (Kanto Kasei LTD). The box had a Yamaha parts I. D. sticker but as I recall there was no mention of Yamaha on the grease container itself so it may not have been manufactured specifically for them.

You were right, a 50 gram tub could grease one hell of a lot of Clav'inova's

[ChesterNYC909]

Wow, you paid $8? Yamaha told me that a person with a technician license is about half than that for a consumer. So if you happen to have a license, it would still only $16 for me.

I don't believe my keyboard is "bad", it's just been used a lot in 15 years, and has not been covered most of the time.

I figured that removing the keys/weights and cleaning them (they are very dirty) would help the overall feel of the keyboard. One of the keys does stick actually, and I was originally just planning to move the bad key to the end. But then figured, why not remove all the dust, dirt, grime, and apply fresh lubricant too!

I went to a Clavinova repair center yesterday (midtown Manhattan) to ask about all this. The guy said that they don't even use the greases. He said, when the keys stick, they just replace them. But that makes me wonder though...

Do new replacement keys come with grease already applied to them?

The guy at the repair center though $61 and $81 for grease was for several gallons.

But after looking at my keyboard I figure I wouldn't even need new silicon grease.. the area with the grease seems okay and would not need cleaning.

I don't think compressed air would remove all the junk in the keyboard unforunately. I suppose I could remove the keys, clean out the dirt without removing the silicon or key grease, and then replace.

But I would like to find out why Yamaha quoted $81 for the silicon and $61 for the key grease.

I have a feeling they're trying to make up for the free keyboards they've been giving out.

[ChesterNYC909]

I just called Yamaha again, was transfered around again, and wound up speaking with the same Clavinova Customer Support person as last time. She said that the original part number (VD456001) was $8.87, but the superseded one (VD456002) is $61.32, and she said there's nothing she can do about the price!

She gave me the name of another store in Manhattan to try, but I don't know if these places would sell grease outright. (The one I tried yesterday doesn't even use grease.) I guess I'll try next week.

Yamaha did recommend I contact other Clavinova users who have done this work and who might have the grease. Thank God for this forum!!

[dbjorck]

Hi!

My personal opinion of all this is that you may be doing yourself a disservice by attempting to do such a complete cleaning, especially when you're not a technician. Especially since you say that you have no major problems. The keyboard structure is very complex and you are likely to make more damage than good. You cannot merely exchange two keys as you propose - each key has a unique form. The reason that even Yamaha themselves change the key when it sticks, is not because of lacking lubrication, but because the keys tend to develop cracks at the back end.

I really think that you are better off getting a Yamaha technician to look at it if the sticking key is getting too annoying.

Brgds

Danny

[ChesterNYC909]

Thanks for the information Danny. I'm not a Clavinova tech but have the technical ability for such a cleaning. (What I don't have the ability is to spend $61 for an $8 tub of grease.)

Actually I already started, just by cleaning the keys, weights, and surrounding areas in the assembly (without removing any of the original lubricant).

It's a lot dirtier in there than I thought! (dust, hair, crumbs??) I don't know if it'll actually "play" better, but I'll feel better anyway without all that gunk in there.

The upper 25 keys are cleaned, and re-installed. (I put keys, weights, and spring clips back in their original positions, without switching.) I might put the unit back together before continuing just to make sure those 25 work properly.

A cousin of mine (classical pianist) with the same model Clavinova as mine had a sticky key once. He said he switched it with the last "C" on the keyboard and it worked okay, but I never really followed up on that to see. (I'm not a classical pianist, and won't need the weights so exact.)

I hope, for the time being, my CLP-350 will work okay. But would eventually like to take it apart a second time and give a thorough cleaning with new lubricant. If Yamaha doesn't lower the price back to the more normal $8, I hope someone in this forum could sell me theirs for $10-15 or so. (Assuming the tub holds enough for multiple Clavinovas, I'd only need a partial amount.)

This is the recommendation of Yamaha, actually, to get the grease from other Clavinova users. Recommended by Teresa at:

Clavinova Customer Support
Yamaha Corporation of America
800-854-1569 (option #2, then #4)


For the time being though I'm just gonna clean without new lube.

The middle keys have got to be much dirtier than the 25 uppers I already did, and am looking forward to removing all that gunk in there.

Happy Holiday to all!

[dbjorck]

Hi!

Let us know if it actually makes any difference. If it does, I may actually be interested in having a look myself after all. My CVP has a lot of mileage.

Merry Christmas!

Brgds

Danny

[kempedkemp]

I once had a lovely Kawaii digital piano. My sister gave it to me after my niece stopped playing it. It was a nice little instrument for doing outside gigs because I could take it off the stand and move it myself. Somewhere in all the moving around I started having trouble with some of the keys not working properly. Practically having grown up in an electrical technician's workshop (Dad worked in Kodak's Photographic Technology Development Workshop), I thought, no problem. . . I can fix this.

To make a long story short, one of the key springs went boing (boing, boing) and ended up landing on a printed circuit board.
End of story... end of piano. Sure wish I had paid a technician to do that repair.

Merry Christmas to all.

[ChesterNYC909]

I found recommended alternatives from DBM Pro Audio (http://www.dbmproaudio.com/):

This is what DBM Pro Audio uses:

For the "key grease" (key pivots and hammers):
SuperLube #51010 - 7ml precision oiler


and the silicon grease (key guides):
SuperLube #21030 - 3oz synthetic grease


They should be available at Ace and True Value stores (but might need to be ordered from the warehouse).

I got both items for $7.35 total!

Much better than the ~$150 Yamaha wanted for the originals.

[ChesterNYC909]

I noticed, both before and after cleaning some of the black keys, that they make a double click sound when released. It's much louder than the other keys (white or black), not to mention the annoying "double" sound.

I narrowed the problem down to the felt strip that the keys and hammers rest against. Seems the felt is so worn out that some keys make a louder noise when released than other keys do, and the biggest problem, the hammer and keys hit their respective part of the felt at different times, which gives the double sound.

Question:

Is there a way to "puff up" the felt to restore the original "key release" sound? Replacing the felt is the last thing I'd want to do, as it would require having all keys/hammers removed at the same time.