Kawai CP136/116

[sbrbot]

Recently I had an opportunity to spend few hours with Kawai models CP136 (http://www.kawai.de/cp136_en.htm)/CP116 (http://www.kawai.de/cp116_en.htm) ensemble pianos (that's how they call them). I was just curious, I wanted to compare it with my new Clavinova CVP-403 because the price is almost the same (OK, this depends on both Yamaha and Kawai dealers but generally we speak about the same price class).

What a disappointment! Since Yamaha is much stronger brand (if nothing else than in world of digital pianos), I expected that Kawai should offer more than Yamaha for the machines in the same price range. But I was totally wrong. My Yamaha CVP-403 is better instrument than Kawai CP136; Yamaha's sounds are much much better, styles too although there's no such a big difference (also Kawai has only one intro and ending per style), Kawai CP136 has CR-ROM recorder (I don't like this because I assume that offering USB audio recording functionality, that Yamaha has, is much better solution, please Yamaha do not integrate CD/DVD-ROM's in next generation of CVPs), Kawai has floppy disk drive, Kawai CP136 also has better display than my CVP-403 monochrome LCD, Kawais do have USB to HOST connector but do not have USB to device (this is a must for me), recording and sequencing is much easier in Yamaha, score displaying not so good as in Yamaha (although score display is not so good in Yamaha too) ... generally speaking Yamaha's better choice.

It seems that Kawai is more comparable in area of grand pianos and classic pianos but in area of arrangers not yet.

[hpeterh]

Hi,

just some corrections or supplements:
It has 2 Intros/Endings. There are only two buttons, and when no style is started these buttons act as Intro buttons and when the style is running, they act as Ending buttons.

The operation of the sequencer is very different. It is necessary to work with it for a longer time before you completely understand the manual.
So far I can see, it is very complete, nothing essential is missing.
It is possible to insert and delete measures at any position.

There is an editable Event list that is very different from Yamahas implementation. This list is used to edit Style,Tempo and Chord events and MIDI events. Insert,delete,rewrite, everything is supported.

It has not a color screen, but there are at least more than 2 levels of grey that it can display. (ok, there is no black color, therefore the word greylevel might be wrong it can display white, blue and an intermediate level that looks violet.)

Sounds are mainly the same quality as in kawais mp8 and the Piano sound is Kawai's fully featured high-end pianosound with symphatetic string resonance, taken from the CA9 model.
Also the keyboard is Kawai's real wood high end keyboard.

So, for the pianosound, you have to compare it with the CVP405/407/409. CVP 403 has a smaller piano sound.
For the keyboard you have to compare it at least to the CVP407, if not to the CVP409.
For the other sounds and features you have to compare it to the CVP209 (no Megavoices, no IDC no USB) or,just for the sounds, compare it to the CVP401. Now, that doesnt sound so bad ;-)
For the sequencer probably there is no comparison.

Unfortunately Yamaha had no comparable model, they offer a lot of features like Megavoices and IDC that I dont necessarily need and that I dont want to pay. And they rised the prices.

So I had to choose the kawai.


I personally am quite happy with the CP136:)

regards,

Peter

[sbrbot]

Wow, responding on my post I sent almost 2 years ago! However, I appreciate your respond and am glad that somebody can say something about Kawai models (comparing to Yamaha) from first hand.

[hpeterh]

I where looking for a new piano 2 years ago, and when I read your post this pointed me to the kawai.
I compared all features and prices and tried several pianos some months before deciding. It is a lot of money for me.
I understand well that this piano is not for everybody, it is for people who want
a classic piano in first priority, but also an arranger but this and sounds have second priority. I only want a little bit of (jazzy) percussion and bass,gitars and occasionally strings for accompaniement dont need more.
It is very different to the yamaha models and hard to compare.
In first regard it is a very good and beautiful classic piano. But everything -except the speakers- is of course much better than my aged CVP96, so I have improvement in all dimensions.
The other point is, it seams that these models dont sell very good presently, so they are available with much reduced prices ;-)

BTW, just now I had the CVP's line-input connected to the CP136 line-output. What a surprise in sound!
External quality speakers are definitely needed.

best regards,

Peter

[dbjorck]

Hi!

Wow what an old post to open up.

Kawai CP136 has CR-ROM recorder (I don't like this because I assume that offering USB audio recording functionality, that Yamaha has, is much better solution, please Yamaha do not integrate CD/DVD-ROM's in next generation of CVPs)
I actually remember that at the time I did not understand why you said that. But I didn't say anything. But with the 5xx presumably coming around the corner, - why would you not want a CD recorder? As well as USB output, Line Out, and SP-DIF Out. Not everyone wants to run around with a USB thumbstick to a PC or something to get it onto a CD. Just like the USB recording facility was useful, an added CD recording facility would be extremely useful I think. I had to purchase a very expensive recording studio just to get it from my 309GP to a CD. That extra equipment would be unnecessary.

Brgds

Danny

[hpeterh]

I believe the CD recorder in the Kawai CP136 is a result of history ;-).
The older high end Grand Piano models all had it. These were released at a time where USB sticks where small and expensive.
It is an older design. Would be better to have this as a choosable option and reduce the price. I will probably use my MP3 player for Audio recording and I use the CD only for CD's for play along and for learning. I think a separate standalone CD recording system is much more versatile if you really need such a system.

Peter

[Huygens]

I think you need to compare the CP-177 (http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/digital/CP_09/cp177-09.html) to the Yamaha CVP-400 series.

My guess is also that Kawai will present a new line within a year as their CP-series is from 2006.

[hpeterh]

The CP 177 is not available in europe. Also I believe it is an older model and it has the piano voices from Kawai CE200 and not from the CA9 like the cp136.

And yes, I have read rumours about a CP139 with Ivoryfeel keytops,USB to device and mp3 capability....

Peter

[hpeterh]

Hi,

some time ago I sang here the praise for the Kawai CP136.
Now, things have changed as I made advances in pianoplaying and had some more experience with this piano.


It has some serious flaws:

1) If a disk is inserted, that is not writeprotected, while poweron, then this disk is destroyed it is not readable afterwards.

EDIT:
This is a electronics design flaw that causes a problem that happens before the processor runs. I can see it in the service manual. So a firmware update cannot solve this. In the meantime I built a timer that disables the disk write gate for 2 seconds after poweron. This solved the problem completely.

2) Stringresonance is functional only during direct keyboard playing. it is not functional when MIDI or the inbuilt recorder is played. This seemingly is common to all Kawai Pianos. Maybe MP8 MP10 are exceptions, but I dont know this.

3) The pedal is reacting strange. See here:
http://www.thebadroom.de/galaxypianos/galaxyboard/viewtopic.php?bid=1&tid=121
Edit:
In the meantime I found, this is by design. The same pedal sequences are in the MIDI code of the inbuilt demos. So it is not a bug, but nowadays obsolete design.


Peter

[hpeterh]

Deleted by me.
Reason: Problem solved and I was in error about it.
Peter

[hpeterh]

Hello,

in the meantime I could solve the keyboardproblem and I found that this problem was not caused by Kawai. So I regret that I gave a false report.
It is an adjustment problem that was caused by myself.
The problem is completely solved now.
I have therefore removed some text from these above postings, to avoid misunderstanding.

However the other problems or shortcomings are true.
But these dont hurt me too much, and so I am quite happy again.

best regards,

Peter