Restyling - chord data usage

[sbrbot]

CVP during song recording saves information about recognized chords that were played with left hand and one can see these chords in lyrics or score display mode. These chords are actually saved in MIDI file by means of special events with respect to the timing.

Is there any more intelligent way of using chord information inside song than displaying it on screen? OK, (vocal) harmonization functionality probably uses this information in order to adjust harmonization parameters. :)

Is it possible to save a song in one style (where chord data is saved too) and make CVP to play (restyle) this same song with another style (intelligently playing new style in accordance to saved chord data)? :rolleyes:

This way one could save a song and easily try different styles in order to find which one is the most appropriate for this song or (part of song). :cool:

[sbrbot]

I found how one can accomplish mentioned restyling but there's one problem!

CVP deals with chords on two ways:

:1: when one plays style with left hand, during usual recording chords are recognized by CVP/PSR (also shown on screen) and saved inside MIDI file as XF meta data. The same chords are presented in score display.

:2: chords can be defined manually in a song using Song Creator/Step Recording functionality. Chords stored this way are not the same chords stored in XF and these chords are stored inside MIDI file in CdS1 data chunk (probably CdS stands for Chord Data Stream + number of chunk).

look at this images:
328 329

These chords could be used for restyling. If you inserted chords this way, only change the style for that song in the same CHORD window and press EXPAND - new styling will be applied to the song using new chord data. Also chords defined here in Song Creator (CHORD) will overwrite chords in XF meta data.

[sbrbot]

In CVP/PSR Song Creator (CHORD tab) one can define his own accompaniment chords, intros, endings, main style variations, breaks, fill ins ... and all this will be used when new style is expanded (old style replaced with new one) for particular song!

Unfortunately this functionality is not well explained in CVP/PSR owner's manual (although I think that Yamaha CVP/PSR manuals are written OK).

Here I created one explanatory example (three MIDI files) - for the sake of simplicity; MIDI samples consist of only two bars, each bar played with its own chord, no melody at all.


:1: 330 MIDI sample simply recorded and chords of accompaniment played by left hand (look at score layout with chords view turned on and you will see that first bar has chord C and second chord G. This is shown in score layout). There's no data about chords in CHORD tab of song creator. Chord data is saved in MIDI file in XF meta data.

:2: 331 the previous sample from step 1 was used but here I manually inserted chords C and Em for first and second bars in CHORD tab of song creator. If you look at CHORD tab in Song Creator for this MIDI you will see chords C and Em but if you look at score layout with chords view turned on you'll see originally recorded C and G chords (you will hear C and G in accompaniment as well since I did not expand manually inserted chords into song).

:3: 332 the previous sample from step 2 but old style changed (new style defined for song) and expanded (applied) into song where manually inserted chords in step 2 were used for this restyling. If you look at score layout you will see that second bar chord "G" (recorded in first point) is overwritten with chord Em (so overwritten in XF meta tags too) and accompaniment of new style plays Em not G anymore.

Well, now question, which I cannot answer yet, is why CVP/PSR does not record chord data this way that one can see them immediately in CHORD tab of song creator like melody notes in 1-16 tab! and use it for restyling like explained here. Why two parallel info for chords; one in XF meta data and one in CdS MIDI chunk?

Problem is here (or someone could enlighten me) that you have to insert chords manually if you want to restyle.

[MBedesem]

sbrbot:

For about a year I have been working on a new program, called Producer, that allows you to work with chord data on the PC. See description attached.

The program currently doe not fully support the CVP series (although it could). Right now, you would either have to select the style to use on the PSR and you would not be able to Expand the step record file. But you could play a producer file from the PC and use it to create new files or edit existing quick record midis, etc.

Please let me know if you might be interested in trying the program or assisting in adding CVP capability.

Regards,

Michael
mpb@sover.net

[sbrbot]

For about a year I have been working on a new program, called Producer, that allows you to work with chord data on the PC. See description attached. The program currently doe not fully support the CVP series (although it could).

I don't know why developers (you, Heiko Plate, Jørgen Sørensen, ...) dedicate programs in their names to PSR series. CVP series is in terms of internal logic (internal software) the same as PSR series, the difference is in hardware/mechanics of course. I used to have PSR-1500 and everything that I learned on PSR is usable to CVP and vice versa. Also never encountered the situation that MIDI created on PSR does not work on CVP or vice versa (of course comparing the same generations). Not only MIDI's, according to my experience everything that works for PSR works for CVP too. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that this is the same in terms of compatibility. Because of that tools created maybe should not prefer one or another series.

Right now, you would either have to select the style to use on the PSR and you would not be able to Expand the step record file. But you could play a producer file from the PC and use it to create new files or edit existing quick record midis, etc.

Please let me know if you might be interested in trying the program or assisting in adding CVP capability.


Of course, I'm interested.

[Jørgen]

Hi

I don't know why developers (you, Heiko Plate, Jørgen Sørensen, ...) dedicate programs in their names to PSR series.

None of my software programs have PSR name or is dedicated to PSR! :rolleyes:
http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/software/software.htm

Kind Regards
Jørgen

BTW: Very interesting findings you have described.

[MBedesem]

sbrbot:

While the diffferent product lines often do share features(but not always!), many of the supporting files (music finder, style numbers, available voices, step record, registration) are different and cannot be interchanged.

This causes confusion and frustration in users that are not aware. It is of great inconvenience to developers to have to recode the program and develope custom support files for every new instrument. It is not my doing, but users of software utilities do have to pay attention.

Speaking for myself, I think of the term PSR as a generic description covering all the instruments. No slight to the CVPs intended.

To install Producer,

If you have never installed the program,

Download http://www.svpworld.com/dnn/portals/0/files/stylemanager/Producer_FullPackage210.zip
Unzip to an empty folder.
Double click on Setup.exe.


Then update your version:

Download http://www.svpworld.com/dnn/portals/0/files/stylemanager/Producer_Update310.zip
Unzip to an empty folder.
Copy the files to the C:\Program Files\Producer folder.

Regards,

Michael