Getting ready to buy...but need some help

[perfski]

Hey All,
Am getting ready to delve back into the world of playing piano again. I've been to several stores and honestly....not found straight forward sales people who could tell me the features and benefits - differences between the specific models. I'm going to list out some of the questions I've asked / posed and maybe there are some people who could help direct me to sites / places to find the info. Thanks in advance:

1st: I looked at models 403 - 409....obviously there are alot of features on all of them. From what little I learned....I was thinking I'd want at least a 405 style piano or higher. Is there a "simplified site" that lists out the features that justify the upgraded pricing?

2nd: At the dealerships...I saw pianos from 200 and 300 series. I asked what upgrades were done on the 405 from these earlier series. I'm not afraid to spend the extra money if there are true differences that warrant the extra expense. But to throw it down blindly is hard to do.

3rd: Any practical advise on selecting a specific model / year.

4th: Pricing.....How do you determine what a fair price is / what the "retail" is. Seems to be a very protected distribution system. Again, I don't mind paying for a piano...but also don't feel given the economic times....I should pay more than retail. Also possibly consider a second hand piano. Again, I need to know / understand the features and upgrades from model / year to year.

Here is a summary of where I'm at.
I played for about 5 years when I was a child...but have not played for about 30 years, but now as I have a young daughter want to open the world of piano up to her...and also think I'm at a place in my life where I'm "ready" to spend the time practicing and learning to play once again. I don't want to "overdue it"....but have learned from experience, its best to get the features you really want vs having to "upgrade" a year or so down the road. Honestly, if either of the piano shops could have laid out the specific features / benefits in a pragmatic way...and explain them simply...I would have probably bought a piano. But just "playing and singing" and not demonstrating what justified the prices didn't earn my business.

Thanks for your help / input in advance.

Bill

[kempedkemp]

Welcome Perfski. I am not too familiar with the CVP 400 series but I think the difference is in the number and kinds of voices. You can go to the Yamaha web pages for Clavinovas and compare them side by side.

Some of the differences are in the sound system used, the number of polyphonic tones that can be played or sustained at one time and some models have iAFC while others do not.

I hope this is helpful. It would help to know what part of the US you are in with regard to pricing. The "gray market" is dangerous and iffy with no warranty support so I wouldn't recommend ebay or international sales.

[dbjorck]

Hi!

To find the comparison pages on the Yamaha web site is next to impossible. But here is a link: http://music.yamaha.com/products/categoryCompareProducts.html?groupId=17&pageSize=999 You tick the ones you want to compare side by side.

There is also this page: http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/Multimedia/Pianos/Flash/Product_Finder_Clav.htm You could use that first and select your minimum requirements, then you can see which models to look up on the more detailed comparison page.

sbrbot also made a huge effort to create a complete feature comparison chart, which you can find off the FAQ menu on the main page of this site (http://cvpug.com/srbot/CVP.htm)

Brgds

Danny

[ericho]

Welcome to the cvpug Perfski,


In "sbrbot comparison chard" you can see the distinction between mid and hi end CVP
To my opinion there is a big difference between the 2

200, 300 or 400 series, not so big a difference, but differend non the less

My personal favorite is the cvp 407:cool:



Kind regards

Eric

[Carlo]

Hi, Perfski, welcome to the group!

If I may add something hopefully useful to you from my three years' practice on the CVP-307 (and occasionally on the CVP-305), it is this.

If I were to buy a CVP today, I would go for a 407 model chiefly for the following reasons:
(1) you get the grand total of all voices and styles;
(2) you get a 640x480 display screen, which makes a big difference in definition and readability of scores with respect to lower models, equipped with a smaller screen;
(3) you get a 128x128 polyphony, which means that you will be able to create or listen to even the most complex compositions (i.e. those involving lots of instruments and voices, intricate orchestrations and deeply sustained harmonies);
(4) you get the iAFC, which enhances the beauty of sounds (especially piano voices) by taking into account the spatial setting of the room in which you will place your CVP.

Just a bit of advice...

Many wishes for your purchase, anyway.

Best regards,

[Bill Fischer]

Hi, Perfski, welcome to the group!

If I may add something hopefully useful to you from my three years' practice on the CVP-307 (and occasionally on the CVP-305), it is this.

If I were to buy a CVP today, I would go for a 407 model chiefly for the following reasons:
(1) you get the grand total of all voices and styles;
(2) you get a 640x480 display screen, which makes a big difference in definition and readability of scores with respect to lower models, equipped with a smaller screen;
(3) you get a 128x128 polyphony, which means that you will be able to create or listen to even the most complex compositions (i.e. those involving lots of instruments and voices, intricate orchestrations and deeply sustained harmonies);
(4) you get the iAFC, which enhances the beauty of sounds (especially piano voices) by taking into account the spatial setting of the room in which you will place your CVP.

Just a bit of advice...

Many wishes for your purchase, anyway.

Best regards,

Carlo, you've just pointed out several KEY features that *I* would find beneficial. I've sorta been "out of" the Clav arena for several years so I'm WAY behind the curve on knowledge; however I MAY upgrade in 2009.

'Course a lot is going to depend upon what the serious downturn in the USA economy does to pricing. My understanding is that there are still NEW 2xx and 3xx models available in the "pipeline" (someone correct me if I'm wrong). This coupled with the economy should make for a "hungry" Yamaha as well as their dealers. Time will tell......

B F

[zaboomafoozarg]

I think one of the big differences from 300-series to 400-series was the addition of the front USB drive port. I record songs to the internal memory of my CVP-407, then when I get them all set up correctly, I record the audio as .WAV to the USB drive. Very handy, no cables to mess around with, and the quality is great.

Also, I think in the 300 series, only the 309 had Natural Wood keyboard, whereas both the 407 and 409 have it in the new series. You might not care or notice a difference, but I preferred the feel. The 409 also has some synthetic ivory keytops, but I've never had a chance to check those out.

[dbjorck]

Hi!


'Course a lot is going to depend upon what the serious downturn in the USA economy does to pricing. My understanding is that there are still NEW 2xx and 3xx models available in the "pipeline" (someone correct me if I'm wrong). This coupled with the economy should make for a "hungry" Yamaha as well as their dealers. Time will tell......
B F
Don't count on it. Yamaha don't care much for supply/demand theory. They consider themselves (kind of rightly) to be almost in a monopolistic situation. They'll continue their high prices. If they make a loss due to the recession, they'll wait for an upturn, and then release a new line and set the prices of it so high that it'll recover their losses during the recession.

That sounds cynical, but I have lost faith in Yamaha as a company over the last few years.

In any event, the current situation forebodes bad news if I look into my crystal ball. I was originally hoping that sales of 4xx would be low and that that would be a signal for them to make 5xx a bit more revolutionary. But, if they now instead put the blame on the recession, they'll hurry to get something new out when it turns, which means another evolutionary product with only minor improvements. On the other hand if they don't blame the sales on the recession, they are probably cutting costs like everyone else in order to stay afloat until it is over; and development costs are high, so even then we are probably to see a disappointing 5xx.

Now - where is the competition to make them run for their money?! If I only had the means I would start up a company building the perfect piano myself. We've discussed what should go into it here for a lot for years, and none of the manufacturers have it all. All of them are progressing at snails pace. Even Microsoft is making bigger advances and quicker than them.

Brgds

Danny

[Bill Fischer]

Hi!

Don't count on it. Yamaha don't care much for supply/demand theory. They consider themselves (kind of rightly) to be almost in a monopolistic situation. They'll continue their high prices. If they make a loss due to the recession, they'll wait for an upturn, and then release a new line and set the prices of it so high that it'll recover their losses during the recession.



Well, NOTHING I buy that is discreationary is a "just gotta have it", so I'll wait until it's "right" for me. Even if Y does as you say and just "waits it out", there will be dealers who won't want to play along.

Dealers can sell units for whatever price they want, they just can't advertise publicly below a certain percentage of MSRP. And they can't quote a prices over the phone that is less than that same minimum price. This is per their contract with Y. That's the way I understand it, anyhow.

You have to actually walk into the business to get any price info that is more like what they will REALLY sell it for.

At the time I bought my CVP700 (around 2001) it had an MSRP that was real close $10K. I paid $4700 for it (plus tax) and the dealer still pocketed right at $700. I SAW his invoice for the unit from Y and I remember it being $3995.

So, the dealers DO have plenty of "wiggle room" in there. 'Course he still had to pay shipping, the light bills, etc so the $700 certainly wasn't ALL profit.

B F