Genreshifting

[dbjorck]

Hi!

I've loved Gershwins orchestral works since childhood. Especially this piece. I used to play it at very loud volume in the car, and my father let me. But I always suspected he didn't really like it.

Oddly enough, I have never played it, or even gotten the notes eventhough I love it. I have played Rhapsody in Blue a lot though. (I haven't posted a recording of it yet - due to the clarinet solo in the beginning being very difficult to get right on the CVP - with the sliding note ending with a slight expressive tremolo; but I have an idea how to achieve it now...) I recently realised that I probably subconsciously did not do it as I felt my father didn't like it, whereas I knew he liked Rhapsody in Blue... So I ordered the notes. I got it a week ago, and have spent the longest on it that I've spent on any piece. Basically from 6AM to 11PM for 4.5 days.

I'm quite satisfied with the result. The piece, to me, has so many emotions. Ranging from hopping joy, to desparing sadness, to hectic anger. There's both tranquility and nervosity, underlined with hope and longing. And I've always loved how it keeps growing and growing and growing until you feel you are about to burst. And I love the simple theme, and especially the unusual dip of 11 half notes; it is so incredibly expressive.

I have used every trick in the book. Well, at least in my book. And discovered several new ones. One is to double the timpani one octave up - that makes it come out much better. And look out for the gradually "super articulated" english horn from bar 224. I added the rattles in the beginning - it was weird whenever I've heard it in my head, they have always been there. Now when I got the notes, I was surprised that they were not there. So I took out my recording and listened to it again; and was astonished to hear that indeed, it was not there either! Apparently these have been in my head all my life. But I included them.
Gershwin Concert in F, I. Allegro - MP3 (http://cid-6610611310e42a4e.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/My%20Music/Gershwin/Concerto%20in%20F%20-%20I.%20Allegro.mp3)

There are some problems, it is a bit smudgy at times for instance, but in general I think it is a good result.

The attached MIDI is absolutely not to be played on a PC. It will sound like crap, and Gershwin will rotate 720 degrees in his grave. For CVP use only. It is zipped because it was too large to attach to the forum...

Brgds

Danny

[Andreas]

Hi Danny,

your Pianoplaying is great! You´re a real master! Superb!

But this time I find the CVP-orchestral sounds compared to the great sound of your grandpiano esp. the reeds not so. Some voices like flutes or pizziccato are great, but others sound a bit unreal ...

I can imagine how much work it was to record this very difficult piece with all those rhythm-changes!

Thanks for posting it to us!

[Carlo]

Hi, Danny!

Congratulations for your new recording!

One feels that you had been longing to play this composition for a long time.
Your piano interpretation is amazing for its expression and virtuosity, and in my opinion it is the most valuable achievement of your recording.

All other technical pearls, though important and worth of praise, are, this time, secondary with respect to the piano execution you reach.
Willing nevertheless to spend a word on technicalities, one clearly feels the improvement on the sound of kettleldrums, which sound now crisper, as you had promised.
I have to partly agree with Andreas, though, for sometimes the winds and strings sound a bit "dry" and do not convey a sufficient "ripieno" effect (more reverb, perhaps?). But this is a rather minor remark.

The strongest point of your recording, I repeat myself, is the piano part, which is wonderfully convincing and professional.

BRAVISSIMO!

Best regards,

[dbjorck]

Hi!

Thank you both for your appreciation of my piano playing.

I must confess though, that I didn't quite understand your problems with wind, reed, and strings. These are the same voices I've always used - I have them stored as user voices. So I listened to it a million times, trying to find what it was that you were hearing. I assume that you Andreas, listened to the MP3, and Carlo on the CVP? That it sounded unrealistic in places was a bit of a vague problem description, but I found some places that needed improving.

Having slept on it, it was also time for a remix, so I did that. The ripieno comment though, made sense. I did consciously choose marcato and solo voices, to keep it crisp. But I did hear it was too much. So I've revoiced to get a more full orchestra feel, and also tweaked reverb, release, and chorus settings.

Has that made it better? The link and the attachment in the original post have been updated to the new version. If it still sounds unrealistic, please give me more details.

PS I like the new english horn I created (it should probably come out a bit more in places). And the ending is much better.

Brgds

Danny

[Andreas]

I think the overall sound is better now, the orchestral feeling is better. (Very good 7:08-8:50)
But the great achievement of this recording is to hear your painoplaying inmidst of this great recording! It´s superb!

[kempedkemp]

I sure wish Copenhagen was closer so I could take you to dinner!

What a wonderful job on this. Is the piano on separate track so you can turn it off and play with the orchestra live?

Kudos and best wishes.

[dbjorck]

Hi!

I sure wish Copenhagen was closer so I could take you to dinner!

For your information, our virtual dinner just now was Spaghetti Bolognese (my mothers special recipe) with garlic bread.


What a wonderful job on this. Is the piano on separate track so you can turn it off and play with the orchestra live?
Thank you. Yes it is on a separate track, although due to the frequent solo bits for the piano, it would not be suitable as a "play along" as is. However a "control track" could easily be added to track 2 to enable the orchestra to follow the live piano. I intend to do that with Rhapsody in Blue when I get around to it.

Brgds

Danny

[kempedkemp]

Can't wait to hear your version of the Rhapsody, especially the Clarinet which you do such a fine job with.

Do you have a score of it yet?

[dbjorck]

Hi!

Can't wait to hear your version of the Rhapsody, especially the Clarinet which you do such a fine job with.

Do you have a score of it yet?

And I can't wait to record it. It was my first priority to record when I bought the CVP. I've tried several times, but it never turned out quite right and I abandoned each project. But now I think I have amassed enough knowledge to succeed; to be able to do the expressive clarinet and the swelling of the strings in the famous slow part. Yes, I have the full score. I'm going to attempt doing it the hard way (fully live playing with no metronome). I also want to add a control track so it can be used for playing along. It will be the most difficult thing I have ever attempted.

Brgds

Danny

[Carlo]

Hi!

Thank you, Danny, for having posted the new version of your recording.
I share again with Andreas the opinion that the orchestra sounds now much more convincing, and the piano part has a better-balanced dynamics with respect to the accompaniment.

In particular, the intervention of the four parts using now SlowStrings voices in bars 224 through 255, corresponding exactly to the passage whose timing is referred to by Andreas in post #5, gives to the wonderful phrase (with the light piano embroideries) so deep an emotional feeling that I happen to be brought to tears whenever I listen to it, although Gershwin is not my favourite author.

Congratulations again and a special thank for having made me discover this work I didn't know.

Best regards,

[dbjorck]

Hi!

In particular, the intervention of the four parts using now SlowStrings voices in bars 224 through 255, corresponding exactly to the passage whose timing is referred to by Andreas in post #5, gives to the wonderful phrase (with the light piano embroideries) so deep an emotional feeling that I happen to be brought to tears whenever I listen to it, although Gershwin is not my favourite author.

Thank you; tears is what I was hoping for! It does that for me, and of course the aim of music is to convey that same feeling that you yourself have in your head. I knew I should have used SlowStrings there (and in a lot of other places), but for some reason I went with the more marcato voicing originally. I think this part is also beautifully heralded by the new English Horn, it sounds really sad and isolated and leads nicely to the fuller swell of the strings. The effect isn't just from the voice changes though, it also has a lot to do with tempo changes.

I would be interested to know what it is about Gershwin that you don't like?

Brgds

Danny

[Carlo]

I would be interested to know what it is about Gershwin that you don't like?


Hi!

Perhaps I was a little misunderstood.
There is nothing particular I dislike about Gershwin. It's only that I don't know his works so deeply and widely as those of other musicians; hence, I didn't consider myself ready to express a motivated opinion on your interpretation.

In general, I feel more inclined to authors who master intricate developments starting from simple themes rather than to composers who merely deploy fanciful phrases with light formal textures (harmonic or structural). Though provocative it may seem to some Impressionism fans, I therefore prefer Saint-Saens to Debussy (I'm aware that half the fellow members will be hating me from now on...).

But, if we come back to Gershwin, the first movement of Concerto in F does not sound at all like a flattering improvisation on popular themes, but instead it is very well constructed (it reminds me some Ravel's moods) in alternating brilliancy and pathos, and, as such, it was a doubly pleasant discovery to me.

Thank you again for that.

Best regards,

[Carlo]

the new English Horn, it sounds really sad


Hi, Danny!

At the risk of getting blamed for willing to peek into your private musical toolbox, would it be possible to know the settings you used on modifying the original English Horn voice (I suppose it's the Regular one, having MSB=0, LSB=112, PRG=70 in the Data List) ?

Did you save it in a .vce file ?

Thanks a lot in advance.

Best regards,

[dbjorck]

Hi!

In general, I feel more inclined to authors who master intricate developments starting from simple themes rather than to composers who merely deploy fanciful phrases with light formal textures

I agree - I so admire when a simple theme gradually evolves. I really wish I knew how to do that.

I therefore prefer Saint-Saens to Debussy (I'm aware that half the fellow members will be hating me from now on...).

Aah! When I read that, something immediately clicked. I love Debussy, but there's always been something missing that I couldn't put my finger on. It's the development; you are right. Especially his later works, they are more virtuoso showing off than developing an actual melody. The earlier are much more enjoyable.

Brgds

Danny

[dbjorck]

Hi!

At the risk of getting blamed for willing to peek into your private musical toolbox,

It's not private. And I basically make a lot of new tools every time, so it's not really a toolbox as such... :-)


would it be possible to know the settings you used on modifying the original English Horn voice (I suppose it's the Regular one, having MSB=0, LSB=112, PRG=70 in the Data List) ?

I made the changes directly to the MIDI events after recording, so I don't have it as a voice file. But I will want to use it again, so I'll see if I can extract it. It should be the basic voice, DSP off, with reverb 50, chorus 10, harmonics 14, release 90, attack 74, brightness 20, EQ low 127 (the last two made the biggest difference).

Brgds

Danny

[Carlo]

Hi!

Thank you, Danny.
Your usual knowledge sharing attitude is always very much appreciated. :)

Best regards,

[dbjorck]

Hi!

And I can't wait to record it. It was my first priority to record when I bought the CVP. I've tried several times, but it never turned out quite right and I abandoned each project. But now I think I have amassed enough knowledge to succeed; to be able to do the expressive clarinet and the swelling of the strings in the famous slow part. Yes, I have the full score. I'm going to attempt doing it the hard way (fully live playing with no metronome). I also want to add a control track so it can be used for playing along. It will be the most difficult thing I have ever attempted.

OK, so I have started it. I'm still not satisfied with how it comes out, but I'm out of ideas on making it do what I want it to. (I wonder if SuperArticulation could help? And a Breath Controller?) Anyway it certainly will take a long, long, LONG time to complete so don't expect to hear much new from me for a while (if I can contain myself and be disciplined enough to finish it). And I strongly suspect I will have memory problems again. Here is a taste of the first few bars as they currently stand:
Rhapsody in Blue sample - MP3 (http://cid-6610611310e42a4e.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/My%20Music/Gershwin/Rhapsody%20in%20Blue.mp3)

We had the worst heat wave this year while I recorded it - I had 41 degrees Celsius in the music room. I think some of that depressing heat can be heard in the introductory bars.

PS. I had no idea there was a banjo in it!

Brgds

Danny

[Carlo]

Hi!


I think some of that depressing heat can be heard in the introductory bars.


I suppose you should rework a bit this beginning of the piece after a good and fresh glass of beer... :D :D

More seriously, I think the big challenge here is the clarinet.
If I am allowed a suggestion, I would give a chance to the standard Sweet!Clarinet (yes, the one you don't like much!), for it seems more suitable to render the initial trills and grace notes. Have a try with it...

On the other hand, your "jazzy" piano playing is really admirable as it is, by its own nature.

Best regards,