McParland
10-27-2003, 11:30 AM
Hello --
I played a CLP-175 several days ago at my local Yamaha dealer. They just got their first one in the showroom last week. I was interested in comparing the CLP-170 and the CLP 175.
(For anyone who is wondering, the CLP-170 and CLP-175 are both stand-alone, high-end digital pianos with built in amplifiers and speakers; both have disc drives for recording. The 170 looks like a spinet piano and the 175 looks like a miniature baby grand with a lid that can be put up or down. The 170 has been out for a year or so, the 175 is a brand new model that is just appearing in US dealers' showrooms).
I will preface this by saying I am a long-time acoustic piano player, planning to buy my first digital in the near future, and my knowledge base about digitals is very small at this point. I cannot provide a detailed spec comparison, but only my impressions.
Both the clp 170 and the clp 175 impressed me with their sampled piano sounds and actions. The primary piano voice is sampled from a Yamaha 9-foot concert Grand. Some players (and competing dealers) claim that the treble of this voice sounds harsh or strident, but I do not find this to be true. Maybe I am too accustomed to the sound of Yamaha pianos, but at any rate, I think the sound is great.
The dealer said the 170 and 175 have the same samples, voices, memory, number of polyphonic notes, sequencing capabilities, and so on. Their control panels looked identical. Both have graded hammer actions but the 170 has solid plastic keys, the 175 has wooden keys (with plastic covers, of course). In the 170, the speakers appear to be in the console under the keyboard facing the player. In the 175, the speakers are located where the strings/soundboard would be in an acoustic grand piano, and the sound is thrown up and out into the room. I'm not sure, but I think the 175 may have more speakers and more amp wattage. Both have USB ports for connection to a PC.
Bottom line, for me , was this:
Action: I am used to playing classical music on acoustic grand pianos, and I found the actions of both the 170 and 175 very good -- in fact, better than the actions in most upright acoustic pianos. I slightly preferred the wood-keys in the 175. They seemed to be a little heavier and more natural feeling. This would be a matter of personal preference, however. Neither of them perfectly matches a fine acoustic grand action -- I had a little trouble executing fast passagework and scales and I know that I will need to practice to get accustomed to either one. I will say, however, that I preferred these CLP actions over those in the Roland and Kawai digitals I played recently.
Piano Sound -- The 170 sounded really good from the player's bench - maybe a little more impressive than the 175. The 175 sounded very good, too, but a little thinner from the bench. Here's a signficant difference, however: I asked the salesman to play the two instruments while I walked around the showroom listening, and when we did this, I found a marked difference in the sound of the two instruments depending on where I stood.
The 170 was very "directional" - loud and rich where the player sits, but rather weak from the sides and back, and more importantly to me, I noticed that the sound took on a more strident "electronic" and reverby quality from the sides and back. The CLP-175, on the other hand, sounded equally good no matter where I stood in the room. I recommend you carry out this comparison test yourself and consider carefully where you intend to place the instrument. Also consider whether you will be playing for audiences or playing only for yourself.
The action and sound of both these instruments is far superior to the digitals I tried 5 years ago. I am really impressed. The dealer had a 9-foot Yamaha concert grand in the showroom (the same type of instrument was sampled for the digitals) and the comparison was amazing. Perhaps the purists who badmouth digital pianos haven't played one of these models yet.
The clp-175 is considerably more expensive than a clp-170 with the same hi-gloss ebony finish. For the new 175, my local dealer quoted "list price" of $7400 and "sale price" of $6500. I know this was not their "best" price, but I could not get him to say what his best price was. (It's like buying a car, and it's irritating as h**l). I happen to know that one can get a new CLP-175 shipped from Canada for considerably LESS than $6000 (U.S.) including shipping. If I buy one, that is probably the route I'll take.
(An aside: when I bought a new car a few months ago, I spent two frustrating and irritating weekends trying to deal with two traditional car dealerhips. I got so mad I ended up driving across town and bought a car from a third dealer who sells on a "one-price, no negotiation" basis. I did this strictly because I cannot stand these hide-and-seek pricing games. No matter what you do, you end up feeling abused and taken advantage of. ARE YOU LISTENING, Yamaha??)
In comparison to the CLP 175 (asking over $6000 here), I think a new CLP-170s can be had for around $3,300 where I live. (That's on a quoted "list" price of $5000. NEVER PAY LIST PRICE!)
I think a lot of people will find the CLP-170 fits their needs just fine and decide the CLP-175 is not worth almost $2 grand more. Personally , I'm leaning toward the 175 because I prefer the action, the overall sound, the good looks and the flexibility for placement in my home.
One more gripe about digital piano dealers: For heaven's sake, learn something about the products you're selling! I'm tired of asking piano salesmen questions about an instrument they are trying to sell me, and getting either (1) a wrong answer, or (2) "I don't know, it's probably in the owner's manual somewhere."
Ok, gripes finished for now....
McParland
I played a CLP-175 several days ago at my local Yamaha dealer. They just got their first one in the showroom last week. I was interested in comparing the CLP-170 and the CLP 175.
(For anyone who is wondering, the CLP-170 and CLP-175 are both stand-alone, high-end digital pianos with built in amplifiers and speakers; both have disc drives for recording. The 170 looks like a spinet piano and the 175 looks like a miniature baby grand with a lid that can be put up or down. The 170 has been out for a year or so, the 175 is a brand new model that is just appearing in US dealers' showrooms).
I will preface this by saying I am a long-time acoustic piano player, planning to buy my first digital in the near future, and my knowledge base about digitals is very small at this point. I cannot provide a detailed spec comparison, but only my impressions.
Both the clp 170 and the clp 175 impressed me with their sampled piano sounds and actions. The primary piano voice is sampled from a Yamaha 9-foot concert Grand. Some players (and competing dealers) claim that the treble of this voice sounds harsh or strident, but I do not find this to be true. Maybe I am too accustomed to the sound of Yamaha pianos, but at any rate, I think the sound is great.
The dealer said the 170 and 175 have the same samples, voices, memory, number of polyphonic notes, sequencing capabilities, and so on. Their control panels looked identical. Both have graded hammer actions but the 170 has solid plastic keys, the 175 has wooden keys (with plastic covers, of course). In the 170, the speakers appear to be in the console under the keyboard facing the player. In the 175, the speakers are located where the strings/soundboard would be in an acoustic grand piano, and the sound is thrown up and out into the room. I'm not sure, but I think the 175 may have more speakers and more amp wattage. Both have USB ports for connection to a PC.
Bottom line, for me , was this:
Action: I am used to playing classical music on acoustic grand pianos, and I found the actions of both the 170 and 175 very good -- in fact, better than the actions in most upright acoustic pianos. I slightly preferred the wood-keys in the 175. They seemed to be a little heavier and more natural feeling. This would be a matter of personal preference, however. Neither of them perfectly matches a fine acoustic grand action -- I had a little trouble executing fast passagework and scales and I know that I will need to practice to get accustomed to either one. I will say, however, that I preferred these CLP actions over those in the Roland and Kawai digitals I played recently.
Piano Sound -- The 170 sounded really good from the player's bench - maybe a little more impressive than the 175. The 175 sounded very good, too, but a little thinner from the bench. Here's a signficant difference, however: I asked the salesman to play the two instruments while I walked around the showroom listening, and when we did this, I found a marked difference in the sound of the two instruments depending on where I stood.
The 170 was very "directional" - loud and rich where the player sits, but rather weak from the sides and back, and more importantly to me, I noticed that the sound took on a more strident "electronic" and reverby quality from the sides and back. The CLP-175, on the other hand, sounded equally good no matter where I stood in the room. I recommend you carry out this comparison test yourself and consider carefully where you intend to place the instrument. Also consider whether you will be playing for audiences or playing only for yourself.
The action and sound of both these instruments is far superior to the digitals I tried 5 years ago. I am really impressed. The dealer had a 9-foot Yamaha concert grand in the showroom (the same type of instrument was sampled for the digitals) and the comparison was amazing. Perhaps the purists who badmouth digital pianos haven't played one of these models yet.
The clp-175 is considerably more expensive than a clp-170 with the same hi-gloss ebony finish. For the new 175, my local dealer quoted "list price" of $7400 and "sale price" of $6500. I know this was not their "best" price, but I could not get him to say what his best price was. (It's like buying a car, and it's irritating as h**l). I happen to know that one can get a new CLP-175 shipped from Canada for considerably LESS than $6000 (U.S.) including shipping. If I buy one, that is probably the route I'll take.
(An aside: when I bought a new car a few months ago, I spent two frustrating and irritating weekends trying to deal with two traditional car dealerhips. I got so mad I ended up driving across town and bought a car from a third dealer who sells on a "one-price, no negotiation" basis. I did this strictly because I cannot stand these hide-and-seek pricing games. No matter what you do, you end up feeling abused and taken advantage of. ARE YOU LISTENING, Yamaha??)
In comparison to the CLP 175 (asking over $6000 here), I think a new CLP-170s can be had for around $3,300 where I live. (That's on a quoted "list" price of $5000. NEVER PAY LIST PRICE!)
I think a lot of people will find the CLP-170 fits their needs just fine and decide the CLP-175 is not worth almost $2 grand more. Personally , I'm leaning toward the 175 because I prefer the action, the overall sound, the good looks and the flexibility for placement in my home.
One more gripe about digital piano dealers: For heaven's sake, learn something about the products you're selling! I'm tired of asking piano salesmen questions about an instrument they are trying to sell me, and getting either (1) a wrong answer, or (2) "I don't know, it's probably in the owner's manual somewhere."
Ok, gripes finished for now....
McParland