Learning Aids

[keninirvine]

Hi all: I'm new here, and am seriously considering a CVP 509PE if I can get one for a suitable price. WHile I know the 505 has similar features, it seems if I have to spend that much, I'd rather get the full monty with best sound system and all the bells and whistles.

I've always had pianos in the past, but ran out of room for my baby grand recently, and while looking at uprights, decided to check out the clavinovas and can see that they offer some interesting ways to expand one's hobby. I'm not an accomplished pianist, but manage to pick up some popular songs on the piano by ear, and have sometimes wished I could add other accompaniment. So the CVP series seems to fit the bill, although more expensive than I had wanted.

I'm a little nervous about the learning curve on these machines. The professional demos are very impressive, but of course are done by very accomplished and experienced people. I'd like to know what help is available out there to assist newcomers in being able to exploit the hundreds of features available without being overwhelmed. Are there learning DVDs or CDs that help move up the learning curve quickly? (I assume the manual is not too user friendly if like most manuals these days, especially given the complexity of these devices.)

Am I crazy to want a 509 rather than a 505? I saw a great deal on a 409, but from what I've read, it seems the technology improved a lot with the 500 series. It is important to me that the piano sound is as realistic as possible.

Thanks for any advice.

[dbjorck]

Hi!

I'm not sure what type of tutorials you're looking for, but in the top menu in this forum you have "CVP Tutorials". They are by series. Perhaps that might help.

Brgds

Danny

[yamacvp_player]

Hi, I agree with what you say about wanting the best of the bunch. It's worth it. I have the CVP505 and it is fantastic. The sound system is exceptional, compared with the models having speakers underneath pointing down. The 505 and 509 sound very authentic. If I were you I would certainly consider the 505, as it is very similar to the 509, you probably won't need all the extra few voices, but - the 509 has string resonance. The 505 does not. String resonance gives the piano a more realistic sound, as with the pedal down, all the strings are vibrating in sympathy. This is important and I am very disapointed Yamaha did not put this on the 505. Try them both out and make a decision from there. Now also, the 500 series has the grand piano 1 sample from the Yamaha Concert grand CF111S. This sound is GREAT! The technology of this sample is improved from the 400 series. It's especially noticable in the lower bass notes to me. Overall the 500 series would be my choice. Hope this helps! Good luck!

[keninirvine]

Hi!

I'm not sure what type of tutorials you're looking for, but in the top menu in this forum you have "CVP Tutorials". They are by series. Perhaps that might help.

Brgds

Danny
Thanks, but for the life of me, I can't find the "CVP Tutorials" in the top menu, or anywhere else. I saw a post in November saying they were available for up to the 400 series, which I assume may suffice for the 500 series too.

[keninirvine]

Hi, I agree with what you say about wanting the best of the bunch. It's worth it. I have the CVP505 and it is fantastic. The sound system is exceptional, compared with the models having speakers underneath pointing down. The 505 and 509 sound very authentic. If I were you I would certainly consider the 505, as it is very similar to the 509, you probably won't need all the extra few voices, but - the 509 has string resonance. The 505 does not. String resonance gives the piano a more realistic sound, as with the pedal down, all the strings are vibrating in sympathy. This is important and I am very disapointed Yamaha did not put this on the 505. Try them both out and make a decision from there. Now also, the 500 series has the grand piano 1 sample from the Yamaha Concert grand CF111S. This sound is GREAT! The technology of this sample is improved from the 400 series. It's especially noticable in the lower bass notes to me. Overall the 500 series would be my choice. Hope this helps! Good luck!

Thanks for the input. I have tried the 505 and 509, and I think there are very subtle differences that make the 509 seem more like a real piano. But in the store it is sometimes hard to know if it is your imagination or not too. I think the wood keys contribute to a more natural piano feel too.

[dbjorck]

Hi!

On the home page, www.cvpug.com, right below the title "CVP USERS GROUP", you have tabs saying "Home", "Forums", "Tutorials", etc.

Under Tutorials you have 400 series tutorials. The page it leads to is this: http://www.cvpug.com/content/view/11/23/

The differences in operating between 2xx, 3xx, 4xx, and 5xx are actually very small.

Brgds

Danny

[keninirvine]

Hi!

On the home page, www.cvpug.com, right below the title "CVP USERS GROUP", you have tabs saying "Home", "Forums", "Tutorials", etc.

Under Tutorials you have 400 series tutorials. The page it leads to is this: http://www.cvpug.com/content/view/11/23/

The differences in operating between 2xx, 3xx, 4xx, and 5xx are actually very small.

Brgds

Danny
Thanks Danny. My bookmark takes me directly to the Forums, so I didn't see the Tutorials link until I backed up to the home page. Thanks for the clarification.

[dbjorck]

Hi!

I guessed that was the problem.

Don't forget us though - ask away as soon as you're unclear on something. We're free... ;)

Brgds

Danny

[keninirvine]

Hi!

I guessed that was the problem.

Don't forget us though - ask away as soon as you're unclear on something. We're free... ;)

Brgds

Danny
Well, OK then.

Here is my dilemma. For a number of years, I have enjoyed picking up songs by ear on my piano. I find it relaxing. My technique is pretty unsophisticated, generally using chords or chord runs with my left hand, and melody with my right (multiple notes/chords typically). This allows me to play things like Hotel California, Daniel (Elton John), Piano Man, etc. But I would like to expand my capabilities and styles, so I thought perhaps with the learning aids on the CVP I could do that. I have also wished at times that I could add rhythm and other instruments when playing the piano, so the CVP seems to be the answer to that too. But my fear is that the learning curve could be fairly steep to get to the point where I could start enjoying the capabilities of the CVP. While the demos make it look really easy, and fantastic sounding, I fear that it is like watching a good chef make cooking look easier than it might be for us mortals. An accomplished pianist is going to make much better sounds come out of a CVP than I'll ever be capable of (BTW, I'm in my mid 60's), and their intimate familiarity with and use of all the buttons, settings, pedal programs etc. make the difference between mediocre and professional sounding music.

So based on the experiences of others on this forum, do you think the CVP 500 series would fulfill my desires, or would it just be an expensive frustration? My alternative, of course, is to just get a decent piano (which will hold its value better than a CVP) and do without the capabilities of the CVP.

Finally, is it possible to get a decent deal on these, or does Yamaha control the pricing so much that discounts (other than by Yamaha) are hard to come by? So far, I haven't found much pricing elasticity on the CVP 509.

[dbjorck]

Hi!

But I would like to expand my capabilities and styles, so I thought perhaps with the learning aids on the CVP I could do that. I have also wished at times that I could add rhythm and other instruments when playing the piano, so the CVP seems to be the answer to that too.
Yes, the CVP has many, many different styles that you can just play around with. And it is covered in the tutorials.

But my fear is that the learning curve could be fairly steep to get to the point where I could start enjoying the capabilities of the CVP. While the demos make it look really easy, and fantastic sounding, I fear that it is like watching a good chef make cooking look easier than it might be for us mortals.
I totally understand your fear. But in my view, you have nothing to fear. Yes, there are a lot of buttons, but you only need understand less than a handful of them to get great, and entertaining results. No one has reported having had a steep learning curve before they started enjoying the instrument, everyone got joy from it from the first minute.

I don't think it will be frustrating for you, but I do think that you will find a lot of joy in using it. And you don't need to worry about it being difficult. The instrument caters equally to both simple use and advanced. The "beginner" use is extremely easy. Don't worry ;)

Brgds

Danny

[keninirvine]

I really appreciate the help you folks have provided, and your quick responses to my questions. They are very helpful.

One more: I love the Super Articulation voice for the Irish Pipes. I believe it may only be available on the 509. If I were to purchase another model like a 505 or a used 409 that didn't have that voice, could it be added via download or some other means?

[dbjorck]

Hi!

Unfortunately no. It isn't using software created voices like a synthesizer does, or sampled voices like a sampler does. Although many of the voices are in fact sampled, they are embedded in the hardware, inside the soundchips, as opposed to as files on a harddisk. Yamaha have also claimed that some of the voices are heavily dependent on the other capabilities of the piano, such as effects (DSP=Digital Signal Processing).

So we have to sit looking stupid and pay a fortune every time they come with a new model with new voices... A good deal for them. A hard disk model where you can just download voice files is of course possible, but they're not rushing to create one.

In my mind the whole thing should be modular. Rather than selecting a model, you'd select which modules you want; which furniture, which type of keyboard, which screen, how large a hard disk, which voices, and optional modules like a sampler, effect controls, microphone unit, etc. Then you'd just slide those modules into compartments with connectors in the furniture. So when they create a newer and better module, you just buy that one and replace. Makes repairs a whole lot easier too.

Brgds

Danny

[dbjorck]

Oh, and by the way Yamaha also has a line of what they call workstations, called the Tyros. According to themselves, it is the exact same innards that the CVP has. And that really seems to be the case, because after they release a new Tyros, a new CVP range follows a year later with the same functionality and voices. The Tyros III has Super Articulated voices as well for instance.

But guess what? With the Tyros you CAN download new voices.......

A popular discussion here has been to buy a Tyros instead, and an old piano, and just mount the Tyros inside. Someone tried it, and said it wasn't as easy as you'd think.

Brgds

Danny

[kartking]

Hi all: I'm new here, and am seriously considering a CVP 509PE if I can get one for a suitable price. WHile I know the 505 has similar features, it seems if I have to spend that much, I'd rather get the full monty with best sound system and all the bells and whistles.

I've always had pianos in the past, but ran out of room for my baby grand recently, and while looking at uprights, decided to check out the clavinovas and can see that they offer some interesting ways to expand one's hobby. I'm not an accomplished pianist, but manage to pick up some popular songs on the piano by ear, and have sometimes wished I could add other accompaniment. So the CVP series seems to fit the bill, although more expensive than I had wanted.

I'm a little nervous about the learning curve on these machines. The professional demos are very impressive, but of course are done by very accomplished and experienced people. I'd like to know what help is available out there to assist newcomers in being able to exploit the hundreds of features available without being overwhelmed. Are there learning DVDs or CDs that help move up the learning curve quickly? (I assume the manual is not too user friendly if like most manuals these days, especially given the complexity of these devices.)

Am I crazy to want a 509 rather than a 505? I saw a great deal on a 409, but from what I've read, it seems the technology improved a lot with the 500 series. It is important to me that the piano sound is as realistic as possible.

Thanks for any advice.
Hi Keninirvine,
You are right about manuals often not being user friendly. The manual that comes with the Clavinova is half user friendly, and half "not so much" user friendly. The "Quick Guide" in the front is user friendly. Most of the "Basic Operations" sections are user friendly, but it starts to get a little difficult in parts towards the end of the manual. My Clavinova is a 307, and I found that two DVD's offered by www.mclubinteractive.com to be very helpful. I particularly liked the way the two instructors, Tom Folenta and Craig Knudsen presented the tutorials. It doesn't appear that they made DVD's for the 400 or 500 series, but (I'm guessing here) that the features would be similar. Go to the website and type Clavinova in the search box. Eleven items appear for various Clavinova models. Check 'em out. Kartking.