Faulty key on CVP207

[cowpast]

I was playing my CVP207 when I noticed that the E in the octave above middle C was stuck in the halfway up position.
It appears that the key has moved just noticeably and is rubbing slightly on the key to the left.
It's puzzling as I'm the only one using the piano and I know nothing has hit the key to cause it to shift.

After looking at the repair manual, it seems like it might more involved than a do it yourself job.

Has anyone had any experience with having a faulty key repaired, or any idea what might have happened to cause the key to shift?

I seem to remember some previous discussion about faulty keys but can't find anything in the archives.

Phil

[wally]

Taking the lid and control panel off to get to the keys isn't a very difficult task. A while back, one of my beloved children pushed a US dime down between two of the keys and it lodged below the back of the keys where I couldn't see it. By taking the control panel off and pulling the keys off one at a time, I discovered the dime.

Use the Service Manual and follow the instructions. It's pretty simple. But, call your dealer first to find out if this problem is covered by your warranty. Don't do anything to void the warranty.

[cowpast]

Thanks Wally,
My 207 was purchased in June of 2002 so it's out of warranty.
Today I noticed that the key, although shifted slightly to the left, is not actually rubbing the adjacent key.which makes me think it might be a faulty spring, although I can't explain the shift to the left.
Taking it to the point of removing the top and control panel looks doable, the scary part is getting into the disassembly of the keyboard itself. They talk about inserting a rod (round stick) between the frame and keys, but no clue as to the size of the rod or what that accomplishes. Maybe its to prevent the hammers from flopping around.They also talk about using a "thin metal plate" to remove the key, which looks a little tricky
Was the dime removal from your CVP96 or the 209?.
Phil

[wally]

The dime removal was from my 96.

You won't need the rod or the plate for what you need to do. The rod is used to hold the hammers in place when you remove the keyboard module from the cabinet. You don't have to do that.

Just remove the piano's top cover and unscrew the control panel. The control panel will have cables and wires attached, so you only need to lay it back out of the way without disconnecting all the wires. In other words, just unscrew the panel and shift it several inches back so you can see the back part of the keys.

If the keys are like those on my 96, you simply push strait down on the back of the key (the part that was buried under the control panel) and with your other hand, push the key toward the back of the piano. You'll feel it come loose. Then just lift the key strait up and out.

There's a spring directly beneath the key, but that's only a tension spring. The hammer is what actually controls the key (and vice versa). Be careful not to wipe the lubrication grease off the key or spring! You don't want to have to go buy some more.

I imagine you'll be able to figure out what the problem is simply by inspection. The keys are really easy to get to and to take out. And the keyboard is constructed in a very elegant way with very good quality parts. Don't be intimidated by the task.

Good luck!

[ClavinovaGuy]

Your key is likely broken (I have broken 8 of them on my 209). It doesn't take much - a hairline crack at the end of the key (inside of the piano) is all it takes to make the key not want to stay in place.

I learned how to replace them myself, too, using the repair manual - it's not terribly difficult, as Wally said. I ordered my new keys directly from Yamaha - they're around $15 each.

[cowpast]

Thanks guys,
Wow, 8 broken keys. I'm amazed they break that easily. In any case it sounds like that could be the problem. Maybe I'll just go ahead and order a key. That way I can fix it in one operation and not have to take it apart twice or leave it open waiting for parts. If it's something else then I'm only out a few bucks. Should I also get the grease if I'm replacing the key?

[wally]

I seriously doubt that the grease would cost you very much, so why not? I would recommend going into the piano every year or so just to clean out the dust. You may want to check the grease whenever you do your preventive maintenance. I know my CVP-96 could use some lubrication on the keys.

[cowpast]

A lube and oil check sounds like a good idea.

The manual just lists grease with no part number.
It's actually called "Key Grease" and the part number is .....VD456002

The cost for a 50 gram container is $8.87. Probably enough to lube every Clav in the group and then some. At first I though she said a 50 gallon container, that gave me a start.

The key was $14.81

Wally, is the message archive out of business? Clicking on it gets a " There is no group called CVPUG" message.

[wally]

Yes. Last week I killed the old web site. I will remove the link from this site shortly.

[cowpast]

Good news and bad news.
The good news...
The faulty key has been replaced.
The slightly bad news...
There is some difference in construction of the 9x and the 200x
series as the key replacement wasn't exactly a walk in the park.

The top and the key cover can be removed as previously described. The Control Panel can then be moved out of the way.

To do this requires removing the 8 screws holding the panel and moving it back. It can be moved sufficiently on the right but left movement is limited by cables. Clearance on the left was gained by unplugging one connector and snipping a wire tie. The metal support bracket that the cover spring is attached to must also be removed in order to move the Control Panel ( 4 screws).

A flat metal tool, as described in the service manual, is required to remove the key. Fortunately a dinner knife did the job. The knife must be inserted along the side of a white key about 1/2 inch to the rear of the black keys. By pressing down on the knife and feeling around you can find a "springy thingy", (non-tech term). The key is released by pushing down on this stopper (the actual service manual term), while pushing forward on the rear of the key. This must be done carefully in order not to damage the key spring. If replacing a black key, you must first remove
the adjacent white keys.

The other difference I found, from what has been previously described, is that the entire keyboard must be moved at least 1/2 inch to the rear in order to get the key clear of the wooden front rail. No amount of maneuvering or jiggling would allow the key to be removed without doing so.

After removing 11 screws, the keyboard can be shifted toward the rear to gain enough clearance to remove the key. I found that it was easier to remove both keyboard End Blocks (one screw and pull straight up), to be able to get a finger hold on the keyboard to move it.

Replacing the key itself is kind of a trial and error effort. First insure the Key Spring is behind 2 small tabs. If it popped out while removing the key it can be relocated by bowing the spring down a couple of inches and pushing it behind the tabs.Then slip the key over the spring so it's up into the back of the key.

The key is then lowered flat and a little forward, then backwards to engage the front key guide. Move it back until aligned with the adjacent keys then push down on the rear to snap it in place. Check by pulling up on the front of the key to make sure everything is properly engaged. This may take a few tries to get it right. It's easier to do than to describe but with no previous experience requires a little patience.

A very small amount of grease is applied to the rubber striker on the bottom of the key and the 2 forward inner sides of the key. You can see where by looking at the old key. Enough grease should be salvageable from the old key. There was no grease on the key springs.

Adding the time required for this (according to the manual) would be anywhere from an hour to 2 hours. It took me about 4, but I fiddled, fussed, cleaned and explored, (hey, why not). Surprisingly, after 2 years of play, there was little in the way of dust and dirt but I did vacuum and remove what little there was with a small artist brush.

The funny(?) thing is that I could find absolutely nothing wrong with the key that I removed even by examining it with a magnifying glass, however, for now, the new key is functioning properly. What caused the old one to malfunction remains a mystery.

Regarding the warranty and the wisdom of this as a do it yourself job...
The warranty states...1 year parts and labor and "4 years on individual electronic parts" which can be subject to interpretation. After the first year you may get lucky and have it done as a warranty job, so it's worth a phone call but I checked and it was definitely a no go.

The 4 year eligibility for parts replacement is determined by sending out a repair tech and you footing the bill for labor. This would be whatever the repair person wants to charge as they are not employed directly by Yamaha. Having a tech replace a $15 dollar key at today's labor rates could be expensive.

I'm hoping no one else will have the problem, but if so maybe this will help. If more info is needed, I'll provide whatever I can.

Phil

[ClavinovaGuy]

Glad to hear your key is working, Phil! My experience replacing keys was much the same as you described. I'm betting there's a hairline crack somewhere near the end of the key (the end that sticks inside of the piano). One of mine was like that, and by just wiggling the plastic a bit, a chunk broke off.

I recall that after I got mine all back together, I was wishing that I had just reassembled it with Velcro - LOL!

[cowpast]

Thanks to both you ClavinovaGuy and Wally for your input on the problem. It gave me what I needed to give it a shot.

Believe me, I gave that key a real workout trying to find a fault. I would have felt a lot better about the repair if I could find one, but it looks perfect.
Phil

[cowpast]

Correction to the above post... I played with it some more and d...ed if a piece didn't come off right in the area you described.
Mystery solved. Still don't know what made it crack, I'm not that hard on it and my wife rarely uses it.
Phil

[ClavinovaGuy]

The first two of mine that broke were the B and E (below and above middle C) that would be used with a drum kit for the bass and snare drum. I had done a drum track for a cover of Elton's "Funeral for a Friend/Love Lies Bleeding", and they had taken a pretty good beating in the process. The repair guy told me that B and E were the most commonly broken keys, but not necessarily those exact two. Shortly thereafter, the same two broke again, with very little play, and I've had 4 others, including an F and G (so much for the B/E theory) go bad as well, in various locations on the keyboard. I have no idea what causes it either, as it doesn't seem to be related to hard or frequent play.

[cowpast]

My problem was the E in the octave above middle C.
My wife took the 2 pieces and pushed them back together and it's impossible to see the crack. I don't know how it held together while I fiddled with while it trying to find the problem. I'm glad to hear your replacement experience was similar to mine. I thought I was missing the boat in getting the key to clear the front rail.
Phil

[pempek40]

I had a same problem with my CVP105.It is a common problem. I am afraid that the same problem will occur to the other keys (I got 4 sticking keys) so I made complaint to Yamaha and then they finally replaced it with CVP 3XX's whole assembly keyboard.
They said CVP3XX keys have been improved.

[ClavinovaGuy]

Now THERE"S a great solution! Who did you talk to?

Thanks for the info!

[cowpast]

When I called the store about the broken key, the response was that it was the first time they heard of that happening.

The cracks seem to occur on the thinner side of the rear of the key where it is sort of a force fit over a knuckle (for lack of a better term). It's possible that a hairline crack could occur when the key is first installed and later on just gets worse with use until it gives out.

I assume that you were past the 1st year on the warranty. Was there any cost to you for the keyboard replacement?

[pempek40]

I just said the first problem with my CVP is 1 key then 2,3, 4 keys. I agree to pay the parts since it is out of warranty case. But the sticking keys problem will continue. I can fell it if we press the keys its start with a bit sticking then become worse. Replacing individual key will not solve the problem. They process it internally about my complain. Then the repairman came with a whole assembly new keyboard with no invoice just the delivery order. It means it is free.
The repaiman talked about his effort to solve my problem with his superior. He said it is CVP3XX keyboard that has been tested and improved. So I just gave him tip money.......
What I fell with this new keyboard :
-smooth movement of all keys
-the return noise that occured when the key reach its rest position is drastically minimized.

Br.

[efi_gabriel]

We have two broken keys on our CVP 205. RE(middle octave)and MI(next octave). Actually I am not a piano player. It's my 8 year old daughter who is using it. I do not have a service manual and I wanted to take that portion apart and investigate if there is a temporary solution. I have called the service department but it will take a month before they can schedule the repair. Besides they said they do not have parts. I am from the Philippines and wonder why the dealer do not have spare keys. The reason why I wanted to fix it myself is that, my daughter is joining the competition in two weeks time and it is bugging her a lot when the keys are stuck. Can somebody give me a detailed tutorial on taking the keys aparts? It will be highly appreciated. As I said I do not have a service munual. I have removed three screws at the back and managed to removed the top cover. I am now stuck on this situation and trying to find out which screws are next and what to watch out. Can you also send me info on where to order the parts. I guess it will be a lot faster to buy it online.

Thanks,
Efi

[tim_goh]

I had the same problem too (CVP-207) - and took some pictures which I had intended to share on the forum but didn't get around to ... well, here it is finally.

The key on the top is obviously chipped. It is not obvious, but the key on the bottom has a hairline crack in the same place.