Totally clueless about wireless

[dbjorck]

Hi!

I'm biting the bullet and preparing to set up a wireless network in order to connect my CVP-309GP to my Media Center PC.

Not having set up such a thing before, I'm at a loss to what I need, and I don't want to buy too much equipment and then not have to use it.

I understand I need a wireless USB Ethernet Adapter, but what I don't understand is if that is ONLY for the CVP side or if it contains both. The only useful information I've been able to gather from the Yamaha pages is that if your modem does not have a router, you need a separate router as well over and above this adapter thing.

I have a cable modem, and there is a spare 45RJ 100 Mbps LAN connection, does that mean it has routing capabilities, so I don't need a router? Does the Ethernet Adapter thing have a second gadget to plug directly into that side as well then?

Or should I have an Wireless Access Point, whatever that is?? Or are they all the same things with different names, the pictures seem to indicate that. In that case do I simply need two of them? Or again, does one of them handle both sides ... ????? :confused:

Brgds

Danny

[dalgety]

Hi Danny,

Unless you already have a wireless network configured in your home (which means you have an "access point"), you will need to purchase both an access point and a USB wireless adapter. Sometimes you can buy both in a "kit" in the same box.

I'm not much at ascii art, but here's what it looks like:

[ISP]------[cable modem]-----[access point] ) ) ) ( ( ( ( [USB adapter]------[CVP]

Your cable modem is hooked to the cable from your broadband provider. You connect an 802.11 wireless access point into your cable modem. These typically serve not only as a wireless access point, but also has a wired and wireless router.

On the CVP side, you just plug the wireless adapter into an unused device USB port (note - not the same USB port used to connect to a host (PC) - you have two of them on your 309GP).

That's it from a physical connection standpoint. From the configuration angle there are lots of permutations that involve how your ISP is setup, what you want to do about security, etc. There are enough of us here who have this up and running that we'll be able to help you with any of that too when you're ready to go.

I'm using a D-Link DI-514 router (http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=226) and a D-Link DWL 122 adapter (http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=175). I know others are using the same adapter with no problems. If you would like to read what is involved before making your purchase, you can download documentation for both devices at the pages listed above - click on "install guide". Whether you buy D-Link or anything else, the same steps will be necessary, though the screens make look slightly different.

-Ross

[dbjorck]

Hi!

Thank You, I already searched the web for the suggested Yamaha adapter and found a "kit" which clearly showed two gadgets, which cleared it up for me.

Now, as I will probably want to use the network for other things, has anyone been able to successfully use 802.11g equipment with the CVP as opposed to the suggested 802.11b? If so, which ones?

And another question that occured to me, can I get the audio signal wirelessly to the Media Center PC as well, so it can go to the speakers and I can burn what I play onto regular CD's? Are there such gadgets? Could it somehow reuse the wireless network so I don't have to buy too much equipment?

Brgds

Danny

[tomz17]

welllllllll...

802.11b does not do sound out of the box. if you had a laptop on your cvp, you *could* write (or perhaps download) software that would take the stereo line in, digitize it, and transmit it over tcp/ip to the media center PC.

Even if someone made such 802.11b hardware (you can imagine having the necessary analog-digital circuitry, along with an analog-stereo line in/out on the network cards), you would need to specifically use and find drivers for such an adapter. As far as I know, no such product exists.

the only other thing i can think of is using an fm modulator at your cvp, and an fm tuner connected to the line-in port on your media pc. You can buy one of the many "wireless" speaker kits out there, or you can put it together yourself using a belkin tunecast, or similar product, and a regular walkman). -However- the most you would get out would be FM-quality sound. I suspect you would not be too pleased with that.


-Tom

PS. do some research, perhaps someone has made a "digital" wireless sound package that does better than just regular FM encoding.

[dalgety]

Tom has done a good job addressing your Media Center PC question, which I know nothing about. But just a quick reply to your other question about 802.11g. You may be able to get an 802.11g wireless adapter to work in the CVP, but another member posted that he was unsuccessful with at least one such device. However, you should be able to buy an 802.11g router, but stick with a USB1.1 802.11b adapter for the CVP. I believe most all g routers will also support b adapters (albeit at the slower transfer rate, which you'll never notice because of the poor performance of IDC).

-Ross

PS Here's a link Google turned up that might be interesting re: wireless media pc. Note, I have only skimmed it, but it looks pretty good:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/mce/expert/bowman_extenders.mspx

[tomz17]

The only thing to be aware of, is that even if you have an 802.11g access point, EVERYTHING will work at 802.11b speeds as soon as a single 802.11b device connects to the network.

So if you have an 802.11b adapter on your clavinova, and have to decide between an 802.11b and 802.11g access point, go for the cheaper (802.11b one.)


-Tom


Originally posted by dalgety
However, you should be able to buy an 802.11g router, but stick with a USB1.1 802.11b adapter for the CVP. I believe most all g routers will also support b adapters (albeit at the slower transfer rate, which you'll never notice because of the poor performance of IDC).

-Ross

[dalgety]

Tom raises a good point, but it isn't clear to me that when you add 802.11b devices that your entire network downgrades to 10 Mbps. This page says, at least with the router in question, that you can still anticiapte around 20 Mbps with a mixed network:
http://web.belkin.com/support/kb/kb.asp?a=2569&langid=1

I've done a bit of poking around on the web, and seen mixed messages. From what I can determine, there will be an impact by adding a 'b' device, but the extent of the impact really depends on the particular hardware in question.

Thanks for the good catch Tom.

-Ross

The only thing to be aware of, is that even if you have an 802.11g access point, EVERYTHING will work at 802.11b speeds as soon as a single 802.11b device connects to the network.

So if you have an 802.11b adapter on your clavinova, and have to decide between an 802.11b and 802.11g access point, go for the cheaper (802.11b one.)


-Tom

[sablair]

I detailed my CVP 307 wireless setup in this thread:

http://www.cvpug.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=794&highlight=internet

Also, If you can get the Mididtainment Quickstart CVP 300 series DVD from your dealer, it has a detailed hour-long tutorial on how to connect to the internet. See this thread:

http://www.cvpug.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=856&highlight=sablair

As far as buying a slower router, I would buy the fastest router.
The speed is very important when using my laptop in the house.

I didn't know that the router runs at the slowest speed of the items connected. Even so, I only connect my CVP a small percentage of the time. The rest of the time you would benefit from the faster speed, if you plan to use it with a laptop, etc.

[tomz17]

Originally posted by dalgety
Tom raises a good point, but it isn't clear to me that when you add 802.11b devices that your entire network downgrades to 10 Mbps. This page says, at least with the router in question, that you can still anticiapte around 20 Mbps with a mixed network:
http://web.belkin.com/support/kb/kb.asp?a=2569&langid=1

I've done a bit of poking around on the web, and seen mixed messages. From what I can determine, there will be an impact by adding a 'b' device, but the extent of the impact really depends on the particular hardware in question.

Thanks for the good catch Tom.

-Ross

You are correct, it does depend on the hardware.

The problem is that 802.11b and g devices are very democratic in their operation. The AP does not handle associations nor handoffs, and does NOT control the output power/channel parameters of the network card... (the network card is essentially in charge!)

In addition, various manufacturers make 802.11 chipsets (each with slightly different extensions) AND the standards (both 802.11b and 802.11g, if I recall correctly, weren't universally adopted until after the first wireless devices already existed!)

At the very least the specs that all manufacturers currently agree too guarantee that ALL 802.11g devices are compatible with an 802.11b device at 11 megabits... (ie. if you pick a random 802.11b device and a random 802.11g network, you are guaranteed that it will work at 11megabits).

However, certain manufacturers have found ways of increasing this rate by extending the capabilities of their own hardware. So if you had ALL belkin equipment (or equipemnt based on the same chipset) for instance, you may benefit from increased speeds when an 802.11b device associates with a network consisting of 802.11g belkin cards and belkin AP . But what happens when i walk into your apartment and the prism chipset in my laptop starts sending out stuff? What happens when your neighbor installs an access point and runs another network card (either 802.11b or 802.11g)...

The answer to such questions is unspecified, highly circumstancial, and very frequently, the least common denominator wins. So while certain manufactuers (or marketing departments thereof) may claim their devices can operate faster, it is always with the caveat that certain (very specific) conditions are met.

-Tom

PS. you can force many AP's to only operate at 54megabits.. While this won't remove the intereference caused by 802.11b devices, it will prevent an 802.11b device from connecting and automatically dropping the rate of the entire network.

PPS. most of this discussion about speed is moot, because you will NOT notice the speed difference between 802.11b and 802.11g unless you transfer large files.

PPPS. interesting side note... when you say 11 megabits, that is the raw card output, rather than the actual rate at which you can send data... in reality, you only get about half of that for use (depending on the chipsets and settings)!!!

[Sunny]

If we're talking about the download speed for IDC on our CVPs (since this IS a CVP forum), then I think it's really a moot point comparing the speeds of wireless-b or -g devices. After all, the download speed is only limited by our broadband connections, which never approach anywhere near the rated speed of even a wireless-b device.

I've started a new thread about the IDC download speeds. Please see
http://www.cvpug.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=878

And for info on general broadband connection speeds, please see
http://www.cvpug.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3585#post3585

[PEPyle]

Originally posted by dbjorck
I have a cable modem, and there is a spare 45RJ 100 Mbps LAN connection, does that mean it has routing capabilities, so I don't need a router? Does the Ethernet Adapter thing have a second gadget to plug directly into that side as well then?


As far as a "spare 45RJ" it is alternate connector, not a spare.
You have a choice of hooking up via either Ethernet or USB, as allowed by the next item in the chain.

I have my cable modem hooked via it's RJ-45 Ethernet, with a Cat.5 cable to the WAN jack on my D-Link DI-624 Wireless Router. (The router has four other Ethernet jacks, and I have #1 connected to my ethernet-ready main PC.)

I also recommend sticking with one brand for all your wireless network. Tom and Ross made good points about possible performance improvements within the same same brand. Another reason is that if you ever talk to a customer support person, they usually blame the other manufacturer if you have problems with mixed makes of equipment.